Illegal Immigration Rallies

[Cancel7]

This was a part of your answer to me. It seems that you are associating some negative to my point of border security first then "path to citizenship" remart that means I haven't gathered FACTS... At least that is what one could imply that you were inferring with your STRESS of certain words there.

No, no no. I don't think that anybody has gathered all of the facts. I've seen studies that state that it's unknown exactly what impact illegal immigration has. I know I don't have all of the facts. In this atmosphere it would be very difficult to get them all, without prejudice. Because pretty much everybody, on both sides, are pushing an agenda one way or the other. I've seen Amy Goodman do shows on immigration and you would never know that studies showing the negative economic impact on the wages of certain classes even existed. Never know it. Same thing with Lou Dobbs. You'd never know studies existed showing an over all positive effect on the economy.

So what am I going to with what they say on the subject? I suspect it. Their words become suspect.

 

[Cancel7]

Because you are quoting me while saying it...

But only because I am trying to explain to you that I find extremists on both sides. I just quoted you while talking about Amy Goodman. Am I comparing you to Amy Goodman? I doubt it!

 

[Cancel7]

Didn't we wave tha amnesty wand at least once before ? During Regan ?

Yes, but in his defense, he thought it was an old lightsaber from the Star Wars set that someone gave him to wave.

 

[Damocles]

Well, technically a portion of those people wouldn't necessarily be deported if they go back on their own and try to get citizenship. But yes, I do think the goal should be identify and deport as many individuals who are here unlawfully. I realize it won't be all of them, but if we can get it up to 300 - 400K a year that would be an improvement. That's one thing Damo and I agree on and that is securing our ports and borders at the same time.

Having said that, I also think at the same time we are doing this the path to citizenship should be expedited a lot and that we should minimize the bureaucracy (sp?) and red tape for those that do make the effort to come here legally.

I agree with that last paragraph there too.

However I think we could incentivize a return by making it cheaper to become a citizen by entering legally than it would be to stay and use the much more expensive and time consuming path here. This would create an incentive to return home and get in line. This coupled with an easier entry could have the effect you want, without spending valued tax dollars gather people up and sending them home with a free ticket.

Did you know that many illegals (and believe me I know quite a few, I met them while working at a gansta bar in Federal Heights out here) actually do something to get deported so that they don't have to pay to travel? They know that they can easily re-enter illegally when they need to return.

I'm serious. I know of several who have used this form of socialized travel before.

 

[Cancel7]

Well, technically a portion of those people wouldn't necessarily be deported if they go back on their own and try to get citizenship. But yes, I do think the goal should be identify and deport as many individuals who are here unlawfully. I realize it won't be all of them, but if we can get it up to 300 - 400K a year that would be an improvement. That's one thing Damo and I agree on and that is securing our ports and borders at the same time.

Having said that, I also think at the same time we are doing this the path to citizenship should be expedited a lot and that we should minimize the bureaucracy (sp?) and red tape for those that do make the effort to come here legally.

Well, I'd hope that we can all agree on that part. It would be a huge mistake not to try and get as many on the books as possible, for security reasons if nothing else.

 

[Damocles]

But only because I am trying to explain to you that I find extremists on both sides. I just quoted you while talking about Amy Goodman. Am I comparing you to Amy Goodman? I doubt it!

That's because I'm prettier...

 

[LadyT]

Prices would still go up, but if you had a stronger working class, so would wages. If wages go up across the board, rather than being depressed because of illegal immigration, then that helps everybody not just those who broke the law.

Well, I don't think you should be rewarded for breaking the law. They are a huge part of the problem that is driving down wages to begin with.

As to your first point. I just feel like that's a lot like the attitude that some on the right have about things like universal health care. Well, I had to do without while I worked my way up, and I paid for health care and didn't go to a movie for 13 years, why should anyone have it easier than I did? So I think that people who immigrated here legally and who feel that way, that strikes me as slightly spiteful.

Well, if we keep granting amnesty, we'll never address the problem. We'll be in the same place 20 years from now. It may even be worse.

I'm not saying, hey, let's let everybody in, no questions asked. I'm not sure that's feasable any longer, the way it once was when most of our parents came over to Ellis Island. I'd like to see some real studies on the impact of that though. Not tilted one way or the other, real, hard core studies.

I think there should only be a couple of requirements:

1) No criminals
2) No associations with terrorist organizations
3) And no fatal air born communicable diseases

 

[Cancel7]

That's because I'm prettier...

I once said to my boyfriend, Jesus, can't she slap on some makeup? Cover up her gray? And he said "oh that's right, everyboyd has to look like you".

He was so snarky sometimes. I see it a lot in the peace movement. But not in CodePink. That is one thing I will say about me and my girls. We are fine looking women baby. And we are still some badass street activists. So, you can do both.

 

[LadyT]

I agree with that last paragraph there too.

However I think we could incentivize a return by making it cheaper to become a citizen by entering legally than it would be to stay and use the much more expensive and time consuming path here. This would create an incentive to return home and get in line. This coupled with an easier entry could have the effect you want, without spending valued tax dollars gather people up and sending them home with a free ticket.

Did you know that many illegals (and believe me I know quite a few, I met them while working at a gansta bar in Federal Heights out here) actually do something to get deported so that they don't have to pay to travel? They know that they can easily re-enter illegally when they need to return.

I'm serious. I know of several who have used this form of socialized travel before.

I thought about doing it when I was a student in London. But they have a rule that you can 't come back within like 5 years or something like that.

I like the financial incentive for going back home and coming here legally though.

 

[Cancel7]

Well, I don't think you should be rewarded for breaking the law. They are a huge part of the problem that is driving down wages to begin with.



Well, if we keep granting amnesty, we'll never address the problem. We'll be in the same place 20 years from now. It may even be worse.



I think there should only be a couple of requirements:

1) No criminals
2) No associations with terrorist organizations
3) And no fatal air born communicable diseases

Well, I think we will have to agree to disagree with on this Tiana. I don't want to argue about it with you when we can pretty much see that we have somewhat differing opinions on it. I'd much rather post ambigious things about Damo and watch him jump all over the place.

 

[uscitizen]

Well, I don't think you should be rewarded for breaking the law. They are a huge part of the problem that is driving down wages to begin with.



Well, if we keep granting amnesty, we'll never address the problem. We'll be in the same place 20 years from now. It may even be worse.



I think there should only be a couple of requirements:

1) No criminals
2) No associations with terrorist organizations
3) And no fatal air born communicable diseases

So they could just come in and go straight on welfare ?

 

[LadyT]

So they could just come in and go straight on welfare ?

Don't you have to be a citizen to get welfare? I don't know for sure, I'm just assuming.

 

[Damocles]

Well, I think we will have to agree to disagree with on this Tiana. I don't want to argue about it with you when we can pretty much see that we have somewhat differing opinions on it. I'd much rather post ambigious things about Damo and watch him jump all over the place.

I need the exercise...

 

[uscitizen]

Don't you have to be a citizen to get welfare? I don't know for sure, I'm just assuming.

I am not totally sure either , but I do know that several years ago immigrants that obtained citizenship were sponsoring relatives to immigrate and many of those sponsored were winding up on welfare in a very short time. Still a better life than many of them had where they came from so a good deal for them. But can we as a nation afford that?

 

[LadyT]

Well, I think we will have to agree to disagree with on this Tiana. I don't want to argue about it with you when we can pretty much see that we have somewhat differing opinions on it. I'd much rather post ambigious things about Damo and watch him jump all over the place.

LOL. He's much better at that game than any of us!

I'm just putting myself in the shoes of the people's who's livelihood's have been affected. If suddenly finance managers started coming out of the wood work and offering to do my job for $20K a year and they are not even here legally, how would I feel? I think people have a tendency to excuse it and be lenient when it doesn't effect their personal finances.

 

[uscitizen]

LOL. He's much better at that game than any of us!

I'm just putting myself in the shoes of the people's who's livelihood's have been affected. If suddenly finance managers started coming out of the wood work and offering to do my job for $20K a year and they are not even here legally, how would I feel? I think people have a tendency to excuse it and be lenient when it doesn't effect their personal finances.

I have been there LadyT, A guest worker replaced me in one job making 1/2 of what I did, and then the other job I found in the same company was replaced with an offshore position, making probably 1/4 of what I did or less. Just harder when you get older and your benefits costs rise on the company.... You young ones will learn....

 

[LadyT]

I am not totally sure either , but I do know that several years ago immigrants that obtained citizenship were sponsoring relatives to immigrate and many of those sponsored were winding up on welfare in a very short time. Still a better life than many of them had where they came from so a good deal for them. But can we as a nation afford that?

No. And maybe that's something that should be looked at. Maybe a time limit or minimum amount put into social security or different state unemployment? I don't know. I haven't given it much thought.

But, I don't like the rational that you have to have a job in order to move here though. Mainly because of the circular notion. Usually you have to be in a place to get a job. We should let them live & have papers to work here legally and then find a job. IMO getting papers to work here should take well under year from start to finish. One of my friend's wife is from a border town and it took her forever to get papers to work and then they wouldn't let her back in the country even though she was married.

 

[uscitizen]

No. And maybe that's something that should be looked at. Maybe a time limit or minimum amount put into social security or different state unemployment? I don't know. I haven't given it much thought.

But, I don't like the rational that you have to have a job in order to move here though. Mainly because of the circular notion. Usually you have to be in a place to get a job. We should let them live & have papers to work here legally and then find a job. IMO getting papers to work here should take well under year from start to finish. One of my friend's wife is from a border town and it took her forever to get papers to work and then they wouldn't let her back in the country even though she was married.

but should they have some type of skill to enable them to make a living ?

 

[LadyT]

I have been there LadyT, A guest worker replaced me in one job making 1/2 of what I did, and then the other job I found in the same company was replaced with an offshore position, making probably 1/4 of what I did or less. Just harder when you get older and your benefits costs rise on the company.... You young ones will learn....

Please, you don't have to tell me twice. I don't have to live it learn. Trust me. I was under the impression that Jersey actually watches over stuff like that - wage disparity. I couldn't give you statutes, but I've heard people talking about it.

 

[uscitizen]

and I know some will say it is illegal to replace a US worker with a foreign guest worker.
Well there are ways around that. Such as redefining job position requirements. and then forcing us to re-apply for a job we have had for years and got great reviews on......Not an uncommon practice in some large corporations.