In Defense of Columbus: An Exaggerated Evil

[evince]

I agree. But that's not what the establishment Left wants. It's only white people that get shut down with accusations of racism whenever we try to fight for our own interests.



Which is why I've always said that public businesses should be completely aracial. There should be no form of affirmative action in public schools or government jobs.
However, if a white person wants to only hire white employees at their private business, that should be allowed.
Right now, affirmative action is used in the public sphere, while only non-white people are able to have self-segregation in their private business. We're getting fucked in the public and the private spheres.



No. I think that the media and academia ONLY showing bad things white people do is teaching hate. Growing up, I thought that only white people had slaves and committed genocide. This is no accident. The media and academia want this. I had to learn on my own that slavery and genocide were done by every people on every continent.
They also exaggerate the bad things white explorers do, which is the case with Columbus. The things Columbus did were normal for the time. And he didn't lead the Europeans to kill all the Native Americans. Like the video explained, this was due to disease.


Again, my problem is only with double standards. People can celebrate black history all they want, but people who think talking positively about white history is racist, well they just suck.

SEE


STONE IS A RACIST


stone by stone ,

fuck you

my party doesn't want your kind

stop pretending to be a liberal asshole


fuck you most sincerely

 

[Adolf_Twitler]

Columbus was smart enough to know, in advance, that the world was a sphere and not flat.

But, he was not smart enough to figure out that what he discovered was not a new route to the Far East but rather a newly discovered Hemisphere unknown to the old world- The Americas!

Did he exploit the natives? In the days of Kingdoms, crusades, and conquests? You can bet your sweet ass he did!

I was never sure why we have a national holiday to celebrate him personally.

Most people have to work right through it, and it basically is an excuse for giving the Post Office a free day not to deliver the mail!

 

[StoneByStone]

I've been a member of "the Left" since I became politically aware before I even became a teenager. You are wrong about that. We want *all* people to have a voice in public life, in academia, in business, in the military (as much as anyone can have an individual voice there, of course). We do not want one group to dominant any other. If it seems to you that now whites' voices are not as loud as those of people of color, perhaps that is just an evening out of the playing field.

So why are only Whites accused of racism when fighting for their own interests? Why does the establishment Left care about non-white groups being underrepresented, but not white people being underrepresented? Why are non-white people able to self-segregate in the private sphere but Whites aren't?

Why? So we can go back to those good old segregation days? Sorry if you're forced to live around, work with, attend church with, educate your kids next to, etc. non-whites. I bet though that they will grow up far more open-minded than their mother, and that is a good thing for us all.

First of all, this is an issue of freedom of association. You don't have to agree with self-segregation, but if you believe in freedom, you should support other people's right to self-segregate.
Secondly, I don't want the government getting involved, saying who can't live where and so on. I only want private businesses to decide for themselves.
And finally, why is this ONLY an issue for white people? How come when black businesses only hire Blacks, or Jews only rent apartments to Jews, nobody kicks up a fuss? This is why people say "anti-racist is code for anti-white.

What bullshit. Show us some examples of non-white businesses allowed to discriminate against whites. I have heard of this happening in Hawaii, but it is still illegal.

It's illegal, but the law is only enforced against Whites. Have you been to New York, California, or any other very multiracial area? There are plenty of non-white businesses that do this. I've been told in job interviews, before the interview even started, that they won't hire me because they want "diversity."

May I ask where you live? Have you spent time living in both racially mixed neighborhoods and neighborhoods with very few minorities?

Then you had a shitty education. *I* grew up knowing that slavery has been around as long as humankind. You never heard about the Hebrews in Egypt? Or that scholars believe that the Pyramids were built with slave labor? You never heard about the Chinese dynasties enslaving other Asian populations, the Mongols taking slaves as they swept across the steppes into Europe? You never heard about Ethiopian kings and tribal chiefs in Africa capturing enemies and enslaving them? You didn't learn about the Aztecs and Mayans enslaving other native groups and using them to build their huge monuments and temples? Yep, crappy education right there.

That's because you're older than me. I'm a Zoomer. Are you familiar with the Overton Window? The Western world is becoming more and more anti-white with each generation. When my parents were in school, they taught about ancient slavery, but only taught about modern slavery in the context of white America. This is still anti-white since it's acting like only white people still practiced slavery in recent times. However, when I went to school it was even worse, because they barely mentioned slavery outside of America.

Even more important than academia, for propaganda, is TV and movies. Look at the tons upon tons of movies about American slavery, Jim Crow laws, supposed current anti-black racism, and the Holocaust.

It doesn't matter if it was "normal for the time." It was still wrong. Yes, disease killed millions of indigenous Americans. And so did the Europeans.

Sure, but people like Columbus are held to a higher standard because he was a white explorer.

My, aren't we a tender buttercup? 90% of the history taught in American elementary and high schools is "white history." It's not called that, of course, because it's taken for granted that the generals, explorers, pioneers, Founding Fathers, explorers, etc. were white. Tell me, what did you learn in school about Native Americans? Were you ever told about the residential schools? Did you learn about the broken treaties, the massacres? Your problem is that you want to white-wash -- pun intended -- our history and make it just about white people brave, good, amazing -- and all those others, meh, well they deserved what they got.

Duh. I learned about all of that stuff because academia is anti-white. I learned the typical one-sided version of "history" where the Native Americans were saints and every instance of violence was the white man's fault.
By the way, the fact that I'm called tender for wanting an end to double standards just shows how internalized anti-white conditioning has been for you. For the "anti-racism" crowd, it's not enough to want all races to have the same standards. Whites must be held to a higher standard.

I am majoring in Native American studies. I have seen students break down and cry in class because they learned positive things about their own culture and people that they weren't taught when they went to primary school. Things that were stripped from them, including their culture, language, religion, ceremonies, their ancestral lands. There is a bad problem among their people with substance abuses and suicide. This is part of the reason why. Our history books and media and culture have treated them as defeated, nothing, people.

Welcome to real life. This happens to every people. The only difference is that it's STILL happening to white ethnic groups.

Think about that the next time you want to whine about your fake persecution nonsense.

How are Native Americans persecuted NOW?

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

So why are only Whites accused of racism when fighting for their own interests? Why does the establishment Left care about non-white groups being underrepresented, but not white people being underrepresented? Why are non-white people able to self-segregate in the private sphere but Whites aren't?

Your perception is erroneous. Whites have dominated our nation's history for the last 250+ years. We owned virtually all the businesses, held all the govt. positions, etc. Now that ppl of color are moving into formerly all-white venues, you're freaking out. It's called a level playing field. Deal with it.

First of all, this is an issue of freedom of association. You don't have to agree with self-segregation, but if you believe in freedom, you should support other people's right to self-segregate.
Secondly, I don't want the government getting involved, saying who can't live where and so on. I only want private businesses to decide for themselves.
And finally, why is this ONLY an issue for white people? How come when black businesses only hire Blacks, or Jews only rent apartments to Jews, nobody kicks up a fuss? This is why people say "anti-racist is code for anti-white.

If someone tells you that you can't rent an apartment because of your religion or color, or get a job because of your race or gender, you know what to do. Whine on an obscure internet forum -- or get off your duff and hire an attorney. It's the same thing that non-whites have had to do for decades.

May I ask where you live? Have you spent time living in both racially mixed neighborhoods and neighborhoods with very few minorities?

I grew up in white-bread world. Married and lived in "mixed" neighborhoods for a couple of decades. Lived in the country (mostly rural whites) for another decade. Moved back to the city in another diverse area. I have never held a job where my coworkers were solely white. Some of the places I lived and worked when younger had a lot of crime. They were also low-income neighborhoods. You've heard of Ferguson, Missouri?

That's because you're older than me. I'm a Zoomer. Are you familiar with the Overton Window? The Western world is becoming more and more anti-white with each generation. When my parents were in school, they taught about ancient slavery, but only taught about modern slavery in the context of white America. This is still anti-white since it's acting like only white people still practiced slavery in recent times. However, when I went to school it was even worse, because they barely mentioned slavery outside of America.

I haven't heard of either "zoomer" or Overton Window. Again, the education regarding slavery is a failing on the part of your education, and not shared by everyone else.

Even more important than academia, for propaganda, is TV and movies. Look at the tons upon tons of movies about American slavery, Jim Crow laws, supposed current anti-black racism, and the Holocaust.

I hadn't noticed "a ton" of movies about those issues. Apparently you see things that aren't there. Have you seen an optometrist? Let's pretend that you are correct and there are "a ton" of these types of movies/programming. So what? Are you worried that young white ppl are going to be more accepting of non-white neighbors, lovers, coworkers, friends, professional people, politicians, etc. because of this "propaganda"?

Sure, but people like Columbus are held to a higher standard because he was a white explorer.

I doubt that. But I'm sure you have some examples of famous brown explorers who are idolized, right? lol

Duh. I learned about all of that stuff because academia is anti-white. I learned the typical one-sided version of "history" where the Native Americans were saints and every instance of violence was the white man's fault.
By the way, the fact that I'm called tender for wanting an end to double standards just shows how internalized anti-white conditioning has been for you. For the "anti-racism" crowd, it's not enough to want all races to have the same standards. Whites must be held to a higher standard.

So the genocide against Native Americans is nothing? You must have gone to a shitty school if you were told that NAs were "saints" and everything that happened to them is all our fault. It sounds as though you are refusing to act like an adult and educate yourself about this aspect of our shared history as a nation, and prefer to stick to the "we're so persecuted" meme.

In the end, what your entire argument boils down to is just about the same as the one used to deny homosexual ppl the right to marry -- "It will degrade the whole concept of marriage." You believe that treating non-whites as equals with whites somehow amounts to discrimination against whites. You seem to have serious issues with understanding that we whites owned the hegemony in this country until the last few decades, then things began to equalize because the laws regarding discrimination were changed. Do you think we live in a "free country" when some of our citizens are not free to do the things you and I have taken for granted?

 

[Jack]

I have been reluctant to read zinn because I like my history agenda free.

Histororical scholarship should really be based on established methods of research and have the utmost integrity to make reasoned conclusions irrespective of personal feelings.

If you want to understand the PC Fascists, you have to understand one of their 'Bibles'. Zinn uses Columbus's own journals and writings. He describes showing a sword to a Native, and the Native grabbing the sharp end and being cut. He writes that with 40 soldiers he could subdue the entire people. The Spaniards that followed would cut the hands of those that did not bring them enough Gold. They viewed the Natives as docile and expendable.
I'm sure Cyrus the Great, Caesar, Alexander the Great, Genghis Khan, and all the rest never committed any type of violent act. Somehow the 'Politically Correct' have seized on Current Icons of the American People to spew their Venom.
So Cypress, if you want to be one of the 'Cool Kids' and know who to Hate, 'A People's History of the United States' is a good place to start. You can wring your hands with worry, shriek into the wind of the Injustice, cry for Retribution.
It's like the small Serb village that was attacked 500 years ago by their neighbors, the Bosnians, and now the score must be evened.

The PC Fascists are like Trumptards, no Answers, just divisiveness and Hatred.

 

[Jack]

telling the truth is NOT HATING

What do you want to EMPHASIZE? Jefferson writing the Declaration? Or Jefferson fucking his slave girlfriend?
Columbus 'discovering' America? Or Columbus subduing conquered people?
Bill Clinton, in YOUR view, a real pig for getting a blow job in the White House?

 

[Cypress]

If you want to understand the PC Fascists, you have to understand one of their 'Bibles'. Zinn uses Columbus's own journals and writings. He describes showing a sword to a Native, and the Native grabbing the sharp end and being cut. He writes that with 40 soldiers he could subdue the entire people. The Spaniards that followed would cut the hands of those that did not bring them enough Gold. They viewed the Natives as docile and expendable.
I'm sure Cyrus the Great, Caesar, Alexander the Great, Genghis Khan, and all the rest never committed any type of violent act. Somehow the 'Politically Correct' have seized on Current Icons of the American People to spew their Venom.
So Cypress, if you want to be one of the 'Cool Kids' and know who to Hate, 'A People's History of the United States' is a good place to start. You can wring your hands with worry, shriek into the wind of the Injustice, cry for Retribution.
It's like the small Serb village that was attacked 500 years ago by their neighbors, the Bosnians, and now the score must be evened.

The PC Fascists are like Trumptards, no Answers, just divisiveness and Hatred.

For every zinn there have been a thousand books extoling the virtues of Anglo-Saxon culture.

I have been aware most of my life that indigenous people of the Americas practiced human sacrifice , slavery ,and gratuitous cruelty. I do not accept claims that indigenous cultures of the 16th century were ever portrayed as saints and angels.

 

[Taichiliberal]

Funny how truisms concerning Columbus are considered "hatred" by right wing wonks. Someone needs to clue in these clowns that just because something was legal and accepted by a majority of people (slavery, imperialism, caste systems) doesn't mean it's morally or ethically or even logically correct....just ask the people who get the short end of the stick in the aforementioned.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

For every zinn there have been a thousand books extoling the virtues of Anglo-Saxon culture.

I have been aware most of my life that indigenous people of the Americas practiced human sacrifice , slavery ,and gratuitous cruelty. I do not accept claims that indigenous cultures of the 16th century were ever portrayed as saints and angels.

Yep. In addition to that, I have heard my northern relatives refer to Native Americans exactly the same way that ppl in the south would refer to blacks: "Lazy, drunken, whores, criminals, stupid" etc.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

Funny how truisms concerning Columbus are considered "hatred" by right wing wonks. Someone needs to clue in these clowns that just because something was legal and accepted by a majority of people (slavery, imperialism, caste systems) doesn't mean it's morally or ethically or even logically correct....just ask the people who get the short end of the stick in the aforementioned.

Good point. We can still admire Jefferson for his erudite writings, his service as President, his contributions to the creation of our country -- while recognizing that he was a human man, and that in accordance with those times he owned slaves, and boinked some of them. The same is true of Columbus. That isn't hatred, that isn't rewriting history. It is merely expanding upon it. History is much richer and more interesting when you have a fuller view of the key participants.

 

[Jack]

For every zinn there have been a thousand books extoling the virtues of Anglo-Saxon culture.

I have been aware most of my life that indigenous people of the Americas practiced human sacrifice , slavery ,and gratuitous cruelty. I do not accept claims that indigenous cultures of the 16th century were ever portrayed as saints and angels.

Cool. I'm not arguing that. If you have an interest in seeing the side of the PC Fascist, this would be a good beginning. Just a suggestion.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

If you want to understand the PC Fascists, you have to understand one of their 'Bibles'. Zinn uses Columbus's own journals and writings. He describes showing a sword to a Native, and the Native grabbing the sharp end and being cut. He writes that with 40 soldiers he could subdue the entire people. The Spaniards that followed would cut the hands of those that did not bring them enough Gold. They viewed the Natives as docile and expendable.
I'm sure Cyrus the Great, Caesar, Alexander the Great, Genghis Khan, and all the rest never committed any type of violent act. Somehow the 'Politically Correct' have seized on Current Icons of the American People to spew their Venom.
So Cypress, if you want to be one of the 'Cool Kids' and know who to Hate, 'A People's History of the United States' is a good place to start. You can wring your hands with worry, shriek into the wind of the Injustice, cry for Retribution.
It's like the small Serb village that was attacked 500 years ago by their neighbors, the Bosnians, and now the score must be evened.

The PC Fascists are like Trumptards, no Answers, just divisiveness and Hatred.

.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

What do you want to EMPHASIZE? Jefferson writing the Declaration? Or Jefferson fucking his slave girlfriend?
Columbus 'discovering' America? Or Columbus subduing conquered people?
Bill Clinton, in YOUR view, a real pig for getting a blow job in the White House?

.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

Cool. I'm not arguing that. If you have an interest in seeing the side of the PC Fascist, this would be a good beginning. Just a suggestion.

.

 

[evince]

What do you want to EMPHASIZE? Jefferson writing the Declaration? Or Jefferson fucking his slave girlfriend?
Columbus 'discovering' America? Or Columbus subduing conquered people?
Bill Clinton, in YOUR view, a real pig for getting a blow job in the White House?

truth abut what people do is truth


you want to whitewash history

if you don't learn the TRUE history you don't learn the real lessons

 

[Jack]

truth abut what people do is truth


you want to whitewash history

if you don't learn the TRUE history you don't learn the real lessons

Most people remember Bill Clinton as balancing the Budget. You choose to remember Bill Clinton as the Guy that got the Blow Job.
Most people remember Thomas Jefferson as the Drafter of the Declaration of Independence. You are out there with your sledgehammer smashing his Statue for fucking his slave babe (his wife's half sister).

'Real Lessons'? The 'Lesson' is that all pissed off people that like to find reasons for divisiveness, anger, hate, and victimhood, should all be sent somewhere where they can all commiserate together.

 

[Cypress]

Columbus was smart enough to know, in advance, that the world was a sphere and not flat.

But, he was not smart enough to figure out that what he discovered was not a new route to the Far East but rather a newly discovered Hemisphere unknown to the old world- The Americas!

Did he exploit the natives? In the days of Kingdoms, crusades, and conquests? You can bet your sweet ass he did!

I was never sure why we have a national holiday to celebrate him personally.

Most people have to work right through it, and it basically is an excuse for giving the Post Office a free day not to deliver the mail!

Well done .

Worth noting >> people knew the world was spherical since ancient Greece .

Columbus voyage was actually premised on a gross navigational blunder . Columbus used eristophenes highly erroneous estimated cicumfrence of earth rather than the highly accurate estimated of ptolmy. Leading Columbus to concude Asia was much closer traveling west .

A gross navigational blunder is one legacy of Columbus .

I give him credit for the sheer audacity of his vision , and being able to sell it to his investers

 

[USFREEDOM911]

Most people remember Bill Clinton as balancing the Budget. You choose to remember Bill Clinton as the Guy that got the Blow Job.
Most people remember Thomas Jefferson as the Drafter of the Declaration of Independence. You are out there with your sledgehammer smashing his Statue for fucking his slave babe (his wife's half sister).

'Real Lessons'? The 'Lesson' is that all pissed off people that like to find reasons for divisiveness, anger, hate, and victimhood, should all be sent somewhere where they can all commiserate together.

.

 

[StoneByStone]

Your perception is erroneous. Whites have dominated our nation's history for the last 250+ years. We owned virtually all the businesses, held all the govt. positions, etc. Now that ppl of color are moving into formerly all-white venues, you're freaking out. It's called a level playing field. Deal with it.

I'm not complaining about minorities moving into formerly all-white venues. I'm complaining about the double standards.

If someone tells you that you can't rent an apartment because of your religion or color, or get a job because of your race or gender, you know what to do. Whine on an obscure internet forum -- or get off your duff and hire an attorney. It's the same thing that non-whites have had to do for decades.

Please. Do you really think I would win that case? Nobody cares when white people are discriminated against. It's laughed off as "white people problems." At best, we get made fun of, and at worst, we get called racist.

I haven't heard of either "zoomer" or Overton Window. Again, the education regarding slavery is a failing on the part of your education, and not shared by everyone else.

Zoomers are the generation after Millennials. The Overton Window is harder to explain, so I recommend looking it up on Google. In short, it's a metaphorical window encompassing what's socially acceptable. When something that wasn't previously acceptable becomes accepted, the window moves, and now something else is closer to becoming accepted. For example, after homosexuality became legal, the window moved to encompass civil unions between same-sex couples. When that became accepted, then gay marriage was up for debate, then it was gay couples adopting. Each taboo thing wasn't on the table until a less taboo thing was accepted first.
So, when it comes to race and propaganda, academia started by doing things like teaching us the Civil War was about slavery and purposely leaving out things like Native Americans owning slaves even after white people gave up their slaves. Then after this was accepted, schools were able to leave out other aspects of history, this making white people seem even worse.

I hadn't noticed "a ton" of movies about those issues. Apparently you see things that aren't there. Have you seen an optometrist? Let's pretend that you are correct and there are "a ton" of these types of movies/programming. So what? Are you worried that young white ppl are going to be more accepting of non-white neighbors, lovers, coworkers, friends, professional people, politicians, etc. because of this "propaganda"?

That's part of it because, as I explained before, multiracialism never works out well. But more than that, I'm worried that the double standards will get even worse, which is what's happening now. I'm also worried that white people are becoming a hated minority, which will eventually lead to a South Africa situation.

I doubt that. But I'm sure you have some examples of famous brown explorers who are idolized, right? lol

Exploration, generally speaking, has been a white thing, which is why all of the well-known explorers were white. However, it's not just about explorers. It's about cultural heroes being "cancelled" if they're white as a way of undermining white cultures. You have Gandhi in your signature. Gandhi was a huge racist. This is never talked about because the media and schools have nothing to gain from cancelling people like Gandhi for his racism or MLK for his homophobia and sexual violence. Columbus is seen as a hero mainly to white America and especially Italian-Americans. That's why the establishment came for him.

So the genocide against Native Americans is nothing? You must have gone to a shitty school if you were told that NAs were "saints" and everything that happened to them is all our fault. It sounds as though you are refusing to act like an adult and educate yourself about this aspect of our shared history as a nation, and prefer to stick to the "we're so persecuted" meme.

First of all, I never said that what happened to the Native Americans is nothing. I said I was familiar with it and how it has been used as propaganda.
Secondly, this is another case of the Overton Window shifting. You were lied to when you were told that the Europeans committed mass genocide against the Native Americans. Most of them were actually killed by disease. By the time I was in school, the schools had gotten away with the genocide lie, so they were able to move to the Native American as a "Noble Savage" lie. I was taught that the Natives tried to help the Europeans by teaching them how to farm, but the white man decided to kill them all.

In the end, what your entire argument boils down to is just about the same as the one used to deny homosexual ppl the right to marry -- "It will degrade the whole concept of marriage." You believe that treating non-whites as equals with whites somehow amounts to discrimination against whites. You seem to have serious issues with understanding that we whites owned the hegemony in this country until the last few decades, then things began to equalize because the laws regarding discrimination were changed. Do you think we live in a "free country" when some of our citizens are not free to do the things you and I have taken for granted?

Again, it's not about denying minorities anything. It's about giving Whites the same rights that they have. This means no affirmative action for ANYONE in the public sphere, and in the private sphere everyone gets freedom of association. Couldn't make it more fair than that.

 

[Taichiliberal]

StoneByStone wrote:
It's OK to Be White Please. Do you really think I would win that case? Nobody cares when white people are discriminated against. It's laughed off as "white people problems." At best, we get made fun of, and at worst, we get called racist.

Spare us all this tired ass whine....because last time I checked, the periodic cases of real estate "red-lining" are not something YOU have to worry about. Nor do you have to worry about organized hate groups that have been around for well over a century...who have members and sympathizers in law enforcement, local and federal gov't. And you are less likely to be denied a bank loan despite having the same financial situation as a black person.....as well as you're less likely to get the same severe jail sentence as a black person for the same exact crime.


I could go on, but the only thing YOU seem to hear are the wails of "affirmative action is wrong"......yet NOTHING from you regarding "legacy students". GMAFB!