Is the Bible Literally True? No, of Course Not!

Continued repetition of the same erroneous claims from your mind masters...

Yes you did (and are still continuing to do so).


Nope, this is WRONG. He dies on the very same day as the prior events that you listed. All those events occur on the very same day. I've provided you with the timeline of events multiple times now.


WRONG again. There is no "dead on the day before". The 'day of preparation' IS the 14th of Nisan, the VERY SAME DAY. Both gospel accounts are describing the very same day, the 14th of Nisan.

This is what happens when you outsource your thinking to mind masters who are complete and utter MORONS on this subject (such as Bart Ehrmann) instead of simply reading through (and comprehending) the Bible for yourself.

Per Exodus 12 (and mentioned elsewhere in the Bible as well), the slaughtering of the Passover lamb always occurs on the 14th of Nisan ("at evening", so before sunset, still on the 14th of Nisan, just before the beginning of the 15th of Nisan). The "day of preparation", "day of preparation of Passover", and "when it was customary to sacrifice the Passover lamb" language that is being used in both the Mark and John accounts is referencing THIS VERY SAME SPECIFIC DAY (the 14th of Nisan).

Read the Bible for yourself and find out. Read Exodus 12, then compare what is said there against what is ACTUALLY said in the Mark and John verses that you keep misquoting.

Stop letting Bart Ehrmann do your thinking for you. He is a MORON on this subject matter.

I'm going to post the relevant verses from Mark and John, and highlight the ones that I'm specifically referencing, so you can tell me exactly what I'm getting wrong:

From Mark 14:

The Last Supper
12 On the first day of the Festival of Unleavened Bread, when it was customary to sacrifice the Passover lamb, Jesus’ disciples asked him, “Where do you want us to go and make preparations for you to eat the Passover?”

13 So he sent two of his disciples, telling them, “Go into the city, and a man carrying a jar of water will meet you. Follow him. 14 Say to the owner of the house he enters, ‘The Teacher asks: Where is my guest room, where I may eat the Passover with my disciples?’ 15 He will show you a large room upstairs, furnished and ready. Make preparations for us there.”

16 The disciples left, went into the city and found things just as Jesus had told them. So they prepared the Passover
.


From Mark 15: This took place after they ate the Passover meal, since Passover began the night before:

The Crucifixion of Jesus

15:22–32pp—Mt 27:33–44; Lk 23:33–43; Jn 19:17–24

21 A certain man from Cyrene,o Simon, the father of Alexander and Rufus,p was passing by on his way in from the country, and they forced him to carry the cross.q 22 They brought Jesus to the place called Golgotha (which means “the place of the skull”). 23 Then they offered him wine mixed with myrrh,r but he did not take it. 24 And they crucified him. Dividing up his clothes, they cast lotss to see what each would get.

25 It was nine in the morning when they crucified him. 26 The written notice of the charge against him read: the king of the jews.


The same account from John, where there is no mention of the Disciples asking Jesus where to prepare the Passover meal. There is also no mention of Jesus doing the "This is my body....." speech.

John 13:

Jesus Washes His Disciples’ Feet
13 It was just before the Passover Festival. Jesus knew that the hour had come for him to leave this world and go to the Father. Having loved his own who were in the world, he loved them to the end.

2 The evening meal was in progress, and the devil had already prompted Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, to betray Jesus. 3 Jesus knew that the Father had put all things under his power, and that he had come from God and was returning to God; 4 so he got up from the meal, took off his outer clothing, and wrapped a towel around his waist. 5 After that, he poured water into a basin and began to wash his disciples’ feet, drying them with the towel that was wrapped around him.


John 19:

13 When Pilate heard this, he brought Jesus out and sat down on the judge’s seat at a place known as the Stone Pavement (which in Aramaic is Gabbatha). 14 It was the day of Preparation of the Passover; it was about noon.

“Here is your king,” Pilate said to the Jews.


So, again, John specifically says that he was already arrested by noon on the day of Preparation of the Passover. Mark specifically says Jesus gave instructions for the Passover meal (the day of Preparation), ate the Passover meal with his disciples and was then arrested and crucified at 9am on Passover. What am I manipulating or making up?
 
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"You are all socks!", says the Sock.

:rofl2:

The three posters (you, Into and Ibda) all talk EXACTLY ALIKE. the ONLY people you agree with are one of those three. You all hold the same BIZARRO shit-brain theories. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck it is probably a duck.
 
I'm going to post the relevant verses from Mark and John, and highlight the ones that I'm specifically referencing, so you can tell me exactly what I'm getting wrong
Great. I'll use red text to highlight key words within the verses you quote, as well as red text within my responses to signify the meaning of those highlighted words. It'll be plain as day for you to see, IF you want to see it, which you don't, but I'll still do it anyway for the benefit of others who actually wish to learn.

From Mark 14:

The Last Supper
12 On the first day of the Festival of Unleavened Bread, when it was customary to sacrifice the Passover lamb, Jesus’ disciples asked him, “Where do you want us to go and make preparations for you to eat the Passover?”

13 So he sent two of his disciples, telling them, “Go into the city, and a man carrying a jar of water will meet you. Follow him. 14 Say to the owner of the house he enters, ‘The Teacher asks: Where is my guest room, where I may eat the Passover with my disciples?’ 15 He will show you a large room upstairs, furnished and ready. Make preparations for us there.”

16 The disciples left, went into the city and found things just as Jesus had told them. So they prepared the Passover
.
This day being described right here is the 14th of Nisan. How do I know this? Well, let's just take a gander at the first few verses of Exodus 12:

2 And the Lord spake unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt saying,

2 This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you.

3 Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house:

4 And if the household be too little for the lamb, let him and his neighbour next unto his house take it according to the number of the souls; every man according to his eating shall make your count for the lamb.

5 Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:

6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.

14 And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the Lord throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.

Clearly, the reference in Mark 14 is referring to the 14th of Nisan.

From Mark 15: This took place after they ate the Passover meal, since Passover began the night before:
This you have wrong. Yes, this took place after they ate the "Passover meal" (the meal mentioned in the Mark 14 verses above), but Passover did NOT begin "the night before". In the Mark 14 verses above, it was ALREADY the 14th of Nisan (the very beginning of the day, after sunset).

The Crucifixion of Jesus

15:22–32pp—Mt 27:33–44; Lk 23:33–43; Jn 19:17–24

21 A certain man from Cyrene,o Simon, the father of Alexander and Rufus,p was passing by on his way in from the country, and they forced him to carry the cross.q 22 They brought Jesus to the place called Golgotha (which means “the place of the skull”). 23 Then they offered him wine mixed with myrrh,r but he did not take it. 24 And they crucified him. Dividing up his clothes, they cast lotss to see what each would get.

25 It was nine in the morning when they crucified him. 26 The written notice of the charge against him read: the king of the jews.
This is referring to 9am on the 14th of Nisan, so this is already 15 hours into the 24 hour day of the 14th of Nisan. A LOT of things can happen in 15 hours, including eating a Last Supper meal, going into the Garden of Gethsemane, being tried throughout the night, and eventually getting nailed to the cross by 9am.

The same account from John, where there is no mention of the Disciples asking Jesus where to prepare the Passover meal. There is also no mention of Jesus doing the "This is my body....." speech.

Jesus Washes His Disciples’ Feet
13 It was just before the Passover Festival. Jesus knew that the hour had come for him to leave this world and go to the Father. Having loved his own who were in the world, he loved them to the end.

2 The evening meal was in progress, and the devil had already prompted Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, to betray Jesus. 3 Jesus knew that the Father had put all things under his power, and that he had come from God and was returning to God; 4 so he got up from the meal, took off his outer clothing, and wrapped a towel around his waist. 5 After that, he poured water into a basin and began to wash his disciples’ feet, drying them with the towel that was wrapped around him.
This, which is made even clearer by the "evening meal was in progress" language (you know, the "eat this bread, drink this wine" bit during the evening "Passover" ("Last Supper") meal that you lamented John not detailing for you as the other gospel accounts did), took place on the 14th of Nisan, which is THE VERY SAME DAY.

John 19:

13 When Pilate heard this, he brought Jesus out and sat down on the judge’s seat at a place known as the Stone Pavement (which in Aramaic is Gabbatha). 14 It was the day of Preparation of the Passover; it was about noon.

“Here is your king,” Pilate said to the Jews.
This is STILL referencing the 14th of Nisan, but the "noon" timing is a mistranslation by the NIV's translators (as it doesn't make any sense chronologically). The ACTUAL time of the events being recorded here is much closer to 6am, some time between 6am when Jesus was brought to Pilate again and 9am when Jesus was crucified.

So, again, John specifically says that he was already arrested by noon on the day of Preparation of the Passover.

A mistranslation by the NIV translators. This event happened sometime between 6am and 9am on the 14th of Nisan.

Mark specifically says Jesus gave instructions for the Passover meal (the day of Preparation), ate the Passover meal with his disciples and was then arrested and crucified at 9am on Passover.
Not quite. It wasn't 9am on the high sabbath day (15th of Nisan)... It was 9am on the day BEFORE the high sabbath day (14th of Nisan ... the "day of preparation").

What am I manipulating or making up?
You are manipulating the fact that all of these events that you are quoting here all happened on the 14th of Nisan (at various different parts of the very same day).
 
Great. I'll use red text to highlight key words within the verses you quote, as well as red text within my responses to signify the meaning of those highlighted words. It'll be plain as day for you to see, IF you want to see it, which you don't, but I'll still do it anyway for the benefit of others who actually wish to learn.


This day being described right here is the 14th of Nisan. How do I know this? Well, let's just take a gander at the first few verses of Exodus 12:

2 And the Lord spake unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt saying,

2 This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you.

3 Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house:

4 And if the household be too little for the lamb, let him and his neighbour next unto his house take it according to the number of the souls; every man according to his eating shall make your count for the lamb.

5 Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:

6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.

14 And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the Lord throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.

Clearly, the reference in Mark 14 is referring to the 14th of Nisan.


This you have wrong. Yes, this took place after they ate the "Passover meal" (the meal mentioned in the Mark 14 verses above), but Passover did NOT begin "the night before". In the Mark 14 verses above, it was ALREADY the 14th of Nisan (the very beginning of the day, after sunset).


This is referring to 9am on the 14th of Nisan, so this is already 15 hours into the 24 hour day of the 14th of Nisan. A LOT of things can happen in 15 hours, including eating a Last Supper meal, going into the Garden of Gethsemane, being tried throughout the night, and eventually getting nailed to the cross by 9am.


This, which is made even clearer by the "evening meal was in progress" language (you know, the "eat this bread, drink this wine" bit during the evening "Passover" ("Last Supper") meal that you lamented John not detailing for you as the other gospel accounts did), took place on the 14th of Nisan, which is THE VERY SAME DAY.


This is STILL referencing the 14th of Nisan, but the "noon" timing is a mistranslation by the NIV's translators (as it doesn't make any sense chronologically). The ACTUAL time of the events being recorded here is much closer to 6am, some time between 6am when Jesus was brought to Pilate again and 9am when Jesus was crucified.


A mistranslation by the NIV translators. This event happened sometime between 6am and 9am on the 14th of Nisan.


Not quite. It wasn't 9am on the high sabbath day (15th of Nisan)... It was 9am on the day BEFORE the high sabbath day (14th of Nisan ... the "day of preparation").


You are manipulating the fact that all of these events that you are quoting here all happened on the 14th of Nisan (at various different parts of the very same day).


Again, this is why I said there is no reason to continue this discussion. You believe, despite wording to the contrary, that this is all referencing the same day and you apparently believe you know more than those who translate and interpret the Bible.
 
The three posters (you, Into and Ibda) all talk EXACTLY ALIKE.
You have got to be kidding me. There aren't any posters who write like me. It appears that your powers of perception leave a great deal to be desired.

You all hold the same BIZARRO shit-brain theories.
We're the only ones who adhere to science, math and logic ... none of which changes from person to person. Leftists, on the other hand, are highly undereducated, scientifically illiterate, mathematically incompetent, logically inept, economics-challenged and overall cognitively disfunctional. If you ask any ten leftists a complex science or math question, you'll get ten different wrong answers. If you ask any of the three science and math adherents that you mentioned, we'll all give you the exact same correct answer.

... and you find that strange somehow. Ask me how I know that you are a moron.


If it walks like a moron, quacks like a moron, it is probably a leftist moron.
 
Again, this is why I said there is no reason to continue this discussion. You believe, despite wording to the contrary, that this is all referencing the same day and you apparently believe you know more than those who translate and interpret the Bible.
Translation: "Nuh-uh."
 
Again, this is why I said there is no reason to continue this discussion. You believe, despite wording to the contrary, that this is all referencing the same day and you apparently believe you know more than those who translate and interpret the Bible.

It took you 290 posts to realize that?

Google the Dunning-Kruger Effect and you’ll pretty understand where they are coming from
 
You have got to be kidding me. There aren't any posters who write like me. It appears that your powers of perception leave a great deal to be desired.


We're the only ones who adhere to science, math and logic ... none of which changes from person to person. Leftists, on the other hand, are highly undereducated, scientifically illiterate, mathematically incompetent, logically inept, economics-challenged and overall cognitively disfunctional. If you ask any ten leftists a complex science or math question, you'll get ten different wrong answers. If you ask any of the three science and math adherents that you mentioned, we'll all give you the exact same correct answer.

... and you find that strange somehow. Ask me how I know that you are a moron.


If it walks like a moron, quacks like a moron, it is probably a leftist moron.

Hey just for fun: what is the point of a DICTIONARY? Does it give definitions of words?
 
The three posters (you, Into and Ibda) all talk EXACTLY ALIKE.
Oh of course! EXACTLY alike. Not a difference to be seen anywhere. You're quite the conspiracy theorist, Obtenebrator (et al.) ... :rofl2:

TOO FUNNY! :rofl2:

the ONLY people you agree with are one of those three.
Indeed! I ONLY agree with ITN and IBD. I've NEVER ever ever agreed with any other poster ever on this forum ever... EVER! :rofl2:

You all hold the same BIZARRO shit-brain theories. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck it is probably a duck.
Naturally, making use of an acronym is a "BIZARRO shit-brain theory" to you.
 
Nope. The age of the Earth is unknown.

As a person who portrays himself as a proponent of science, I'm curious what is your best estimate on how old is the Earth?

the-office-interested.gif
 
Again, this is why I said there is no reason to continue this discussion.
I'm well aware that there's no reason to continue a discussion directly with you, as you do not wish to learn the truth (instead opting to mindlessly repeat the lies of Bart Ehrmann and others like him who all have no clue what they are talking about). I only continue with these responses for the benefit of others who actually wish to learn.

The problem is that you are unwilling to learn the material necessary in order to understand what you are talking about. You are unwilling to learn about the customs of the Passover holiday. You are unwilling to learn about how days were kept track of back then (as opposed to how you and I keep track of them today). In general, you're just plain unwilling to learn.

You believe, despite wording to the contrary,
There is NO "wording to the contrary". I've already explained precisely why your mind masters are mistaken about this topic, but you are unwilling to learn.

that this is all referencing the same day
It IS all referencing the same day, as I've already explained. Back then, days started/ended at roughly 6pm (IOW, at sunset). All of the recorded events from the "Last Supper" to the burial in the tomb happened on the very same day (the 14th of Nisan, during the 24 hour period that runs from roughly 6pm to the following roughly 6pm).

Think of all those events (in today's terms) as happening between the time period of 12:00am TODAY and 11:59:59pm STILL TODAY. That's what's happening here, but back then the times would've been roughly 6:00pm and 5:59:59pm (the span of a 24 hour day). I've already provided you with the timeline of events multiple times now. Look back on it if you wish to learn about it.

and you apparently believe you know more than those who translate and interpret the Bible.
Ahhhh, the ol' patented "you believe you know more than [inthert thum thooper thmart perthon(th) here].

Why YES, YES I do. Just because YOU don't know a dog turd from a tootsie roll.......
 
You have got to be kidding me. There aren't any posters who write like me. It appears that your powers of perception leave a great deal to be desired.


We're the only ones who adhere to science, math and logic ... none of which changes from person to person. Leftists, on the other hand, are highly undereducated, scientifically illiterate, mathematically incompetent, logically inept, economics-challenged and overall cognitively disfunctional. If you ask any ten leftists a complex science or math question, you'll get ten different wrong answers. If you ask any of the three science and math adherents that you mentioned, we'll all give you the exact same correct answer.

... and you find that strange somehow. Ask me how I know that you are a moron.


If it walks like a moron, quacks like a moron, it is probably a leftist moron.
:laugh: :laugh: :thumbsup:
 
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