JPP Vets

It's interesting to compare the UK and the US when it comes to ex-servicemen. We make far less fuss about them over here, perhaps because we've cut down on the imperialist wars. But then, Wellington described his victorious soldiers, if I remember rightly, as 'the scum of the earth, enlisted for drink', and admiration for the military has never been a British thing, so I wonder where you picked it up. I think it was the Rule of the Major Generals under Cromwell that opened British eyes. Give us sailors and airmen every time: much safer.
 
DebraDoesDonald said:
What do you think about puke cowards who had their rich daddy's pet doc lie about bone spurs to get out of it? You said you served over there, doesn't that make you angry that you went and did the right thing while the playboy stayed home?
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At one time those that evaded the draft angered me. But after all these years I learned that anger just hurts you and not the people who caused that anger. It's plain you haven't figured that out. Funny you should be so angry at a story about Trump falsely getting a deferment for bone spurs when there appears to be no evidence that it ever happened except for a rumor told by a doctors daughters.

"No paper evidence has been found to help corroborate the version of events described by the Braunstein family, who also suggested there was some involvement by a second podiatrist, Dr. Manny Weinstein. Dr. Weinstein, who died in 1995, lived in two apartments in Brooklyn owned by Fred Trump; city directories show he moved into the first during the year Donald Trump received his exemption. Dr. Braunstein’s daughters said their father left no medical records with the family, and a doctor who purchased his practice said he was unaware of any documents related to Mr. Trump. Most detailed government medical records related to the draft no longer exist, according to the National Archives."


You lefties sure put a lot of stock in hearsay evidence look at what you did to Justice Cavanaugh on purely hearsay evidence. I don't like Trump but I dislike whining liberal snowflakes like you worse.
 
iolo said:
It's interesting to compare the UK and the US when it comes to ex-servicemen. We make far less fuss about them over here, perhaps because we've cut down on the imperialist wars. But then, Wellington described his victorious soldiers, if I remember rightly, as 'the scum of the earth, enlisted for drink', and admiration for the military has never been a British thing, so I wonder where you picked it up. I think it was the Rule of the Major Generals under Cromwell that opened British eyes. Give us sailors and airmen every time: much safer.
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We've edged over the line to grossly exaggerated overcompensation, due to guilt.

We have two basic eras of service in this country. Draft/post draft service. We ended mandatory military service in this country in 1973 due to the pressure against the Vietnam war.

As such, men were no longer forced to act as pawns for our heinous military policies. After the My Lai massacre was televised, our nation revolted in record numbers. Unfortunately, when our kids came home from Vietnam, they were blamed for the atrocities we saw on t.v.

They were shunned not only by the public, but by veterans of previous wars. They weren't considered 'veterans', as Vietnam wasn't technically a 'war'. They weren't afforded many of the perks that other 'veterans' enjoyed. That changed over time.

As the decade of peacetime passed, more truths about the Vietnam war came out. The American public, albeit it a little late, no longer held our soldiers responsible for what they deemed unconscionable.

During this time, with a shit economy, many kids opted for military service as a way to get free college education, and a number of veteran's benefits when they completed their service.

When Desert Storm came about, there was quite a bit of hoopla on television about how to treat the kids when they came home. There were references to the Vietnam vets who were treated like absolute shit.

That began a long standing policy of rewarding anyone who ever joined the military, with accolades based on over compensation due to long forgotten guilt.

Truthfully, after WW2, there hasn't been any military engagement enacted by the U.S that had anything to do with 'protecting our freedoms'.

Since Desert Storm, it's been about protecting the free flow of oil out of the Mid East.
 
Althea said:
We've edged over the line to grossly exaggerated overcompensation, due to guilt.

We have two basic eras of service in this country. Draft/post draft service. We ended mandatory military service in this country in 1973 due to the pressure against the Vietnam war.

As such, men were no longer forced to act as pawns for our heinous military policies. After the My Lai massacre was televised, our nation revolted in record numbers. Unfortunately, when our kids came home from Vietnam, they were blamed for the atrocities we saw on t.v.

They were shunned not only by the public, but by veterans of previous wars. They weren't considered 'veterans', as Vietnam wasn't technically a 'war'. They weren't afforded many of the perks that other 'veterans' enjoyed. That changed over time.

As the decade of peacetime passed, more truths about the Vietnam war came out. The American public, albeit it a little late, no longer held our soldiers responsible for what they deemed unconscionable.

During this time, with a shit economy, many kids opted for military service as a way to get free college education, and a number of veteran's benefits when they completed their service.

When Desert Storm came about, there was quite a bit of hoopla on television about how to treat the kids when they came home. There were references to the Vietnam vets who were treated like absolute shit.

That began a long standing policy of rewarding anyone who ever joined the military, with accolades based on over compensation due to long forgotten guilt.

Truthfully, after WW2, there hasn't been any military engagement enacted by the U.S that had anything to do with 'protecting our freedoms'.

Since Desert Storm, it's been about protecting the free flow of oil out of the Mid East.
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I find that very enlightening. Thanks.
 
Dark Soul said:
Yes, but not judgements.
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What judgment are you discussing? The fact that the sons of wealthy and influential parents were able to dodge the draft during the VN war while others served? What I am picking up from you is a feeling that because you disagreed with that war dodging service is good. Have you praised Clinton for doing that as well as Trump?
 
DebraDoesDonald said:
What judgment are you discussing? The fact that the sons of wealthy and influential parents were able to dodge the draft during the VN war while others served? What I am picking up from you is a feeling that because you disagreed with that war dodging service is good. Have you praised Clinton for doing that as well as Trump?
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As I already stated, you didn't have to have wealthy or influential parents to dodge the draft. Lots of guys did it using an array of methods.
 
Grumpy said:
At one time those that evaded the draft angered me. But after all these years I learned that anger just hurts you and not the people who caused that anger. It's plain you haven't figured that out. Funny you should be so angry at a story about Trump falsely getting a deferment for bone spurs when there appears to be no evidence that it ever happened except for a rumor told by a doctors daughters.
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I am not a bit angry. Where do you get that? The doc's kids' tales aside, there is plenty of evidence that the alleged bone spurs did not prevent Trump from playing golf or organized team sports. Clinton got hammered as well for being able to evade service during the VN years.
 
Grumpy said:
At one time those that evaded the draft angered me. But after all these years I learned that anger just hurts you and not the people who caused that anger. It's plain you haven't figured that out. Funny you should be so angry at a story about Trump falsely getting a deferment for bone spurs when there appears to be no evidence that it ever happened except for a rumor told by a doctors daughters.

"No paper evidence has been found to help corroborate the version of events described by the Braunstein family, who also suggested there was some involvement by a second podiatrist, Dr. Manny Weinstein. Dr. Weinstein, who died in 1995, lived in two apartments in Brooklyn owned by Fred Trump; city directories show he moved into the first during the year Donald Trump received his exemption. Dr. Braunstein’s daughters said their father left no medical records with the family, and a doctor who purchased his practice said he was unaware of any documents related to Mr. Trump. Most detailed government medical records related to the draft no longer exist, according to the National Archives."

You lefties sure put a lot of stock in hearsay evidence look at what you did to Justice Cavanaugh on purely hearsay evidence. I don't like Trump but I dislike whining liberal snowflakes like you worse.
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trump himself admitted it.

"...after he graduated from college in the spring of 1968, making him eligible to be drafted and sent to Vietnam, he received a diagnosis that would change his path: bone spurs in his heels.The diagnosis resulted in a coveted 1-Y medical deferment that fall, exempting him from military service as the United States was undertaking huge troop deployments to Southeast Asia, inducting about 300,000 men into the military that year. The deferment was one of five Mr. Trump received during Vietnam. The others were for education...

Mr. Trump’s public statements about his draft experience sometimes conflict with his Selective Service records, and he is often hazy in recalling details. In an interview with The New York Times last month, Mr. Trump said the bone spurs had been “temporary” — a “minor” malady that had not had a meaningful impact on him. He said he had visited a doctor who provided him a letter for draft officials, who granted him the medical exemption. He could not remember the doctor’s name.

“I had a doctor that gave me a letter — a very strong letter on the heels,” Mr. Trump said in the interview...

Mr. Trump has described the condition as heel spurs, which are protrusions caused by calcium built up on the heel bone, treated through stretching, orthotics or sometimes surgery. Mr. Trump said that he could not recall exactly when he was no longer bothered by the spurs, but that he had not had an operation for the problem.

“Over a period of time, it healed up,” he said."

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/02/us/politics/donald-trump-draft-record.html
 
DebraDoesDonald said:
I am not a bit angry. Where do you get that? The doc's kids' tales aside, there is plenty of evidence that the alleged bone spurs did not prevent Trump from playing golf or organized team sports. Clinton got hammered as well for being able to evade service during the VN years.
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Funny for someone who isn't angry you sure do a great job of going nuclear over the subject. I'm not defending Trump one way or the other but playing golf or team sports is a long long way from the exertion required of one in combat.

Also Clinton was hammered for the dirty tricks he pulled such as signing up for the guard but never reporting.
 
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christiefan915 said:
trump himself admitted it.

"...after he graduated from college in the spring of 1968, making him eligible to be drafted and sent to Vietnam, he received a diagnosis that would change his path: bone spurs in his heels.The diagnosis resulted in a coveted 1-Y medical deferment that fall, exempting him from military service as the United States was undertaking huge troop deployments to Southeast Asia, inducting about 300,000 men into the military that year. The deferment was one of five Mr. Trump received during Vietnam. The others were for education...

Mr. Trump’s public statements about his draft experience sometimes conflict with his Selective Service records, and he is often hazy in recalling details. In an interview with The New York Times last month, Mr. Trump said the bone spurs had been “temporary” — a “minor” malady that had not had a meaningful impact on him. He said he had visited a doctor who provided him a letter for draft officials, who granted him the medical exemption. He could not remember the doctor’s name.

“I had a doctor that gave me a letter — a very strong letter on the heels,” Mr. Trump said in the interview...

Mr. Trump has described the condition as heel spurs, which are protrusions caused by calcium built up on the heel bone, treated through stretching, orthotics or sometimes surgery. Mr. Trump said that he could not recall exactly when he was no longer bothered by the spurs, but that he had not had an operation for the problem.

“Over a period of time, it healed up,” he said."

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/02/us/politics/donald-trump-draft-record.html
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You just confirmed what Trump said but provided no evidence to the contrary.
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Grumpy said:
Funny for someone who isn't angry you sure do a great job of going nuclear over the subject. I'm not defending Trump one way or the other but playing golf or team sports is a long long way from the exertion required of one in combat.

Also Clinton was hammered for the dirty tricks he pulled such as signing uo for the guard but never reporting.
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I thought you were on ignore? No problem...this way she'll see your reply:)
 
Frank Apisa said:
It certainly has the look of a cult...at least, the look of the cult that eventually gave Adolf Hitler power in 1930's Germany.
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The drum beating, nationalism, fear of "others," and constant bleating about national security sound eerily similar. I'm sure if the Internet had been around back then, we would have seen exactly the same rhetoric from the citizens in Germany that we do now -- defending Adolf, excusing his failures and personal faults, supporting his calls to do something about the Jewish problem, etc.
 
Grumpy said:
You just confirmed what Trump said but provided no evidence to the contrary.
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You must be confused. You wrote "Funny you should be so angry at a story about Trump falsely getting a deferment for bone spurs when there appears to be no evidence that it ever happened except for a rumor told by a doctors daughters."

If trump admitted it happened, which part is false?
 
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