FUCK THE POLICE
911 EVERY DAY
The transit authority is an executive branch. The council could prohibit them from doing this, but I think the executive branch doesn't have many limits there, since it's a liberal city that wants to "do a lot".
Liberals will protect you from crime by the awesome power of classical music!
- Thread starter TheDanold
- Start date
The transit authority is an executive branch. The council could prohibit them from doing this, but I think the executive branch doesn't have many limits there, since it's a liberal city that wants to "do a lot".
FUCK THE POLICE
911 EVERY DAY
The trade imbalance is caused by the deficit imbalance. It isn't a really big deal.
The number of uninsured is at 46 million now, I believe, maybe higher. But closer to 50 mil than 40 mil (though the 50 mil was an exaggeration).
It doesn't matter if you don't have health care for 6 months, or one year, or two months. If you get sick during that period, you're screwed. And if you get sick shortly after you get health insurance, you're screwed under preexisting.
And there is no evidence that Americans "choose" not to have health insurance, all polls show that it is at the top of the list of their concerns. That is a libertarian fantasy, backed up, when it's backed up at all, by anecdotal evidence.
uscitizen
Villified User
Of course not neither is the record low dollar.
TheDanold
Unimatrix
Americans are also concerned about housing costs and interest rates, doesn't mean they are homeless or stuck without it until government flies in to save them. They just rent.
Likewise there are people who decide not to buy health insurance and would rather pay for it when needed, doesn't mean they aren't concerned.
I am covered and I am concerned over healthcare, "concern" doesn't translate into wanting more government, many people would be happier if costs came down which they were in the early 90's and 80's and beyond BEFORE we passed most of the healthcare regulations and ease of lawsuits that jacked up malpractice insurance and costs overall as much as they did.
Reverse the government growth in healthcare and reverse the problem.
And it does matter if you are only covered through part of the year. Do you really think that your insurance provider is going to know whether you first knew you developed an ache in your foot in June or October?
Well, what I do know is that if you get something like cancer, or liver disease, and you just got insurance that year, they are going to try and claim pre-existing. Now, what they "know" about when you got it, is another story. But if they can hold off paying for long enough, you'll be dead, and then it becomes moot, see? That's what we call "smart business".
Everyone wants to lower costs Dano. That's not even a debate.
And very few people can afford to just pay for health care when they need it. That number would not even affect the statistics. You are talking about the two, maybe even, one, percenters there.
TheDanold
Unimatrix
Darla did you know that your same argument over government taking over healthcare insurance because of costs is the same argument used in Canada for them to take over car insurance because of costs.
Everytime government takes something over, that causes taxes to go up a lot to fund it, which puts more pressure on another industry to pay and thus costs go up there and then they have reason to take over another industry and so on.
Even though they are more leftwing in Europe, they hate corps more there, with more feeling that they are being ripped off by profit. And why not? One reason companies charge more for things is because they pay more taxes for things government funds. People only see price and just blame the company without seeing what they have to pay to sell that product.
Stealth Socialism fueled by a lie over corporate greed.
Everytime government takes something over, that causes taxes to go up a lot to fund it, which puts more pressure on another industry to pay and thus costs go up there and then they have reason to take over another industry and so on.
Even though they are more leftwing in Europe, they hate corps more there, with more feeling that they are being ripped off by profit. And why not? One reason companies charge more for things is because they pay more taxes for things government funds. People only see price and just blame the company without seeing what they have to pay to sell that product.
Stealth Socialism fueled by a lie over corporate greed.
Um, my argument is not that government should take over health care because of cost. Though, I do belive, and in fact, have evidence of, the government would be able to do it cheaper.
My argument for single-payer is that in the United States of America, the greatest country on earth, going to a doctor, whether you have a cold, or lung cancer, should be just a matter of course.
TheDanold
Unimatrix
I don't think I am, big categories of people who choose this are:
1. Rich people
2. The self-employed
3. 20-somethings who are young/healthy and at very low risk and know it
I chose not to get health insurance when I was in my early 20's, why bother? I almost never get sick, buff body and no family history of issues.
I'd rather spend my money on college and saving for a home for a family later, which is what I did. Happy I made that choice too.
You're wrong on 2, in fact that is one of the biggest problems with becoming self-employed.
Correct on 1. And also correct, for the most part on 2. And those are the ones we need in the pool. I want to put them there. I have no problem, with forcing them there.
In ten years, when they have affordable health care that they do need, they'll be thankful for it. In the meantime, they'll learn something Americans desperately need to learn: It's Not All About The Sacred ME".
TheDanold
Unimatrix
No it shouldn't and your feelings illustrate a key point over why socialized single-government payer systems are overrun with demand and have long waiting lists.
Because when people DO have something free they use it more, they do go to the doctor for more little things like coughs and what not, which are in the vast majority of cases nothing a doctor needs to bother with.
It should not be a matter of course, there are decent benefits to naturally limiting every little trip so that people who are more seriously in need are not stuck in waiting lists behind those who just want the attention.
I do not accept two premises:
1) that existing systems are "overrun" with waiting lists.
2) that we can't do better than existing systems anyway.
And yes, they go to the doctor more for "little things" You know what that's called Dano? Preventive medicine, and you ask your doctor what will not only extend your life, but what will end up saving you money in the end.
Preventive care, or emergency care.
In fact, switching from a mindset, and in the cases of the uninsured, the practice of emergency care, to preventive care, is where we can start cutting those health care costs.
TheDanold
Unimatrix
I'm sure they'd like it, but you have to remember that part of what drives a person to be self-employed is that they are willing to take on risk. Because hey people worry much more over their job security than their health and rightly so.
If they are willing to take a risk jobwise, they are willing to take a risk healthcare wise too. They understand that and accept it, because many could easily find a regular joe job and have health insurance coverage but they choose NOT to, so what does that tell you?
But we are all individuals with differing needs. It's not up to you or me to decide and force what is best for all. Let people make their own individual choices in freedom.
Healthcare providers now spend over a quarter of their time on paperwork, would you agree that a good step would be to reduce regulations and ease of lawsuits so they could provide more real healthcare and do it cheaper?
Thorn
Member
The problem with this approach is, of course, that it ignores potential catastrophic events such as accidents and exposure to contagious diseases. In addition, it makes sense that someone who feels as you do/did would be far less likely to go for regular checkups; it's there that early detection of something serious can make a huge difference between health and recovery or disability and even death. I'm glad for you that your confidence was not contradicted by circumstance, but it could have been.
TheDanold
Unimatrix
But they are. Why would you doubt that? You make something free, people use it more, thus waiting lists go up (other things being equal). Just basic economics.
"In a 2003 survey of hospital administrators conducted in Canada, the U.S., and three other countries, 21% of Canadian hospital administrators, but less than 1% of American administrators, said that it would take over three weeks to do a biopsy for possible breast cancer on a 50-year-old woman; 50% of Canadian administrators versus none of their American counterparts said that it would take over six months for a 65-year-old to undergo a routine hip replacement surgery. "
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/opinion/2001977834_cihak13.html
It won't this is a myth. If that were really true more people would take their car for checkups. Yes I'm sure mechanics would like that as they would make more money and same for doctors.
The reality is that if you are reasonably good at watching your health and keeping informed (and geez Darla, you must admit that women today are better informed than ever over healthcare with magazines and such), then you can tell when you really need to go.
The exact opposite was found in Canada. I don't deny preventative care can sometimes help for rare undetectable things, but most of the time you already know by your own body what is needed.
In any case that is a personal choice, if you are worried over what might happen, then YOU pay the extra costs. Others shouldn't be forced to pay for your fretting (whether justified or not).
Dano, I gotta tell ya, I am not going to waste the time, and more importantly, the aggravation, of pursuing this further with someone who actually believes that preventive care does not save money, and of course, lives.
I actually burst out laughing when I read that.
Why argue it? A super- majority of Americans know better, and you are free to live in a fantasy world if you want to. Won't affect the change that's coming.
I actually burst out laughing when I read that.
Why argue it? A super- majority of Americans know better, and you are free to live in a fantasy world if you want to. Won't affect the change that's coming.
All I read on this thread was Darla's last post. My first thought was - even knowing that it's Dano - did he really say that about preventative care? Then I looked a bit further up, and saw this:
"I don't deny preventative care can sometimes help for rare undetectable things, but most of the time you already know by your own body what is needed"
Oh......my.......God.......
"I don't deny preventative care can sometimes help for rare undetectable things, but most of the time you already know by your own body what is needed"
Oh......my.......God.......
Okay, seriously, Lorax, when I read that last part of his post that you just quoted, that's EXACTLY what went through my head. My eyes squinted, my head tilted to the side with my mouth ajar in that perplexed look and I thought, "Oh my god......is this dude fer' real?"