Loaded Gun Left In Capitol Bathroom By A Republican Staffer

[SmarterthanYou]

Well then, shock us with how common it is.

Provide some actual stats to back up your claim.

do you have me on IA or something? you can't seem to remember HALF of the posts I make about your precious peace keepers and their mistakes?

 

[SmarterthanYou]

You've got NO PROOF of that.

Maybe my "hand wringing" saved a multitude of children...you have no way of proving otherwise.

maybe it was your magnets in the school ceilings.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

Um, you DO remember the school shooter who was recently stopped by a woman who just talked to him? don't know if she was pro or anti gun, but she was able to keep him from shooting up the school.

you seriously want to take a single example of a talk down over the last decade and advance the BS theory that we can do this every time in the future?????

 

[Lorca]

Well, as compared to cops, yeah most CCers are better trained than most cops. But training doesn't eliminate mistakes. It reduces them, but you can never eliminate mistakes. And to imply that someone who makes a mistake is immediately irresponsible...well if you're honest with yourself you make mistakes every day. Everyone does.

Good lord I want to support arms and cc as much as the next person but having spent years on gun forums, I've never seen that remotely implied. "Most cc'ers are better trained than most cops?" I'd love to see something to support that.

I know I'm not, as much as I'd like to be. And continue to work on it.

BS will not help us in our fight for the 2A.

 

[Lorca]

unbelievable "hollow points" are they even legal? "one in the chamber" locked and loaded.



.

Spoken like someone with very little actual knowledge about guns.

 

[Lorca]

The point is, many here have been wailing long and loud how this never would have happened if the Naval Yard hadn't been a "GUN FREE ZONE".

Now the truth comes out and it turns out it ISN'T a gun free zone after all...it was just another bullshit lie from a JPP gun nut.

When many schools and shopping malls are declared 'gun free zones" they still often (not always) have armed guards or local cops as security.

So where is the BS?

 

[Lorca]

Dungheap said it best, but this does show that having people armed does NOT stop mass shootings.

Sure they could (& have: recent example Clackamas Co. mall shooting in OR). But even cops and soldiers are ambushed. Surprise is always an advantage.

But once alerted, people inside would still be able to defend themselves.

 

[Lorca]

Do you think anyone considered him a "responsible" gun owner before this?

Isn't every single gun owner considered to be "responsible"...right up to the point they do something stupid like this?

Isnt a driver considered to be responsible up until he has an accident?

You can apply your statement to just about anything. Do we live in a free society or not? Should we just restrict anything that might be dangerous?

"Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free." (will be my signature if I ever get to add one)

 

[Lorca]

do you enjoy the mushroom effect of the projectile tearing thru the flesh?

Why a Hollow Point
In the self defense context, an expanding bullet is good for a variety of reasons.

Generally speaking, to stop a violent attacker with a handgun, the bullets need to either disable the central nervous system (brain, spine) or cause massive blood loss which fuels the brain and muscles.
So called “head shots” are difficult targets, so most instructors train students to aim at the “center of mass”: the upper torso region housing the heart and lungs.

Without trying to sound crude, the bigger the holes you make in an attacker, the quicker he will bleed out

http://www.humanevents.com/2011/03/08/handguns-and-hollow-points/

The intent is to stop them immediately, so that they dont shoot or continue to attack you. Why do you have a problem with people and cops protecting themselves? Should you just shoot and stop and wait and see if they want to take another shot at you? Why would I give anyone an advantage that is trying to kill me?

Not only that, the fact that they expand inside an attacker means that they do not pass through and harm innocent bystanders. They are SAFER for the public.

What is your problem with that exactly?

 

[SmarterthanYou]

Good lord I want to support arms and cc as much as the next person but having spent years on gun forums, I've never seen that remotely implied. "Most cc'ers are better trained than most cops?" I'd love to see something to support that.

I know I'm not, as much as I'd like to be. And continue to work on it.

BS will not help us in our fight for the 2A.

stop being an idiot. familiarize yourself with the average cop training and compare it to how many times the average gun owner goes to the range.

 

[Lorca]

seems to be the commonality, from what I've read here about self defense - have at it, it's your world not mine. I realize i'm in the minority.

I'd just want them stopped, not needing to bleed out.

There are hundreds of accounts, in writing and video, of attackers taking multiple shots from high caliber shots and continuing to shoot and kill people. Loads where they keep fighting. Loads where they run off and die later. The FBI documents these clearly.

The purpose of hollow points is to STOP as fast as possible. Bleeding out takes time, btw, so I dont think you know what you're talking about. Where did you get that from?

 

[Lorca]

stop being an idiot. familiarize yourself with the average cop training and compare it to how many times the average gun owner goes to the range.

I'm an idiot? Please prove it by supporting your statements. How many times did I go to the range last month? Is there data for each state for each licensed permit holder? What about the states where no permit is required? There isnt even data, so please take your insults, along with your opinion, and put your money where your mouth is.

 

[zappasguitar]

When many schools and shopping malls are declared 'gun free zones" they still often (not always) have armed guards or local cops as security.

So where is the BS?

Well then the term "gun free zone" isn't accurate, is it?

The point is many here have complained that the shooter wouldn't have gotten as far as he did if the Naval Yard wasn't a gun free zone...I argued it wasn't really a gun free zone after all.

 

[zappasguitar]

Isnt a driver considered to be responsible up until he has an accident?

You can apply your statement to just about anything. Do we live in a free society or not? Should we just restrict anything that might be dangerous?

"Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free." (will be my signature if I ever get to add one)

But a car, when used as designed, doesn't kill...a gun does.

 

[Lorca]

But a car, when used as designed, doesn't kill...a gun does.

I dont see how that matters. Dead is dead, injured is injured.

Responsibility with a gun does not lead to injury or death unless it is used AS designed (to protect). So no real difference.

 

[Lorca]

Well then the term "gun free zone" isn't accurate, is it?

The point is many here have complained that the shooter wouldn't have gotten as far as he did if the Naval Yard wasn't a gun free zone...I argued it wasn't really a gun free zone after all.

That's true re: accuracy, but there's no standard for the term....each organization uses it as they see fit. I think one thing that is common in most of these active shooter situations is that the shooters *already know* what the security is or isnt. And can prepare for it.

Ambushes are ambushes. The element of surprise is always an advantage. Once he was inside and shooting, maybe an armed person could have defended his or herself. We dont know. Handguns arent the best idea against a shotgun but it gives an individual a choice, an option if they cant retreat safely.

 

[/MSG/]

Good lord I want to support arms and cc as much as the next person but having spent years on gun forums, I've never seen that remotely implied. "Most cc'ers are better trained than most cops?" I'd love to see something to support that.

I know I'm not, as much as I'd like to be. And continue to work on it.

BS will not help us in our fight for the 2A.

If you go to the range once a year, shoot two mags worth of ammo and hit the target 75% of the time you are EQUAL to most cops. If you do more than that, you are better. That simple. Cops don't shoot a lot, don't know much about guns, and aren't trained much in either.

 

[anatta]

I dont see how that matters. Dead is dead, injured is injured.

Responsibility with a gun does not lead to injury or death unless it is used AS designed (to protect). So no real difference.

only problem with that idea is a gun is designed to kill. Period.

It has no other function, whether one is protecting or 'agression(ing)'

 

[Lorca]

If you go to the range once a year, shoot two mags worth of ammo and hit the target 75% of the time you are EQUAL to most cops. If you do more than that, you are better. That simple. Cops don't shoot a lot, don't know much about guns, and aren't trained much in either.

That may be what is 'required' for police to qualify and remain current but you cannot make a blanket statement on what training individual cops put in. They are at the range shooting all the time by me. Officially and unofficially. An that's just 2 local depts. And you certainly cant make blanket statements about private people's training.

The bold is nothing but your opinion and based on my experience, which forms my opinion....it's wrong. I know lots of cops, I used to be a park ranger and worked closely with cops all the time. Lots of cops are into guns too. And sport shooting (not including hunting).

 

[Lorca]

only problem with that idea is a gun is designed to kill. Period.

It has no other function, whether one is protecting or 'agression(ing)'

You didnt understand my third sentence then, re: design.

And that function is very important, I dont really care that you or others dont *like* it. If someone sees my gun and runs away, it functioned perfectly...and no one died. I have a right to protect myself as I see fit. It is just one...the least of actually...many things I do to be responsible for my own safety.

You dont like guns? Dont own one. The odds of you being accidentally killed or injured by someone else driving or YOU driving are about 100 times that of being accidentally shot by a law-abiding gun owner. And yet people are exceedingly casual about driving and find it easy to put those dangers out of their minds, out of convenience.