Morality is all in your mind.

[Diogenes]

How do you know slavery is bad?



Except the Bible gives advice to SLAVE OWNERS. How to treat a slave.

That's tacit approval.

ERGO: Christianity has no rule against slavery. It is not an objectively moral evil in Christianity.

Don't Islamic texts address slavery, too?

The Quran does not explicitly abolish slavery but contains verses that address the treatment of slaves, advocating for kindness and eventually, in some interpretations, emancipation. For instance, there are verses like Quran 90:13 which speaks of freeing a slave as an act of righteousness. However, there are also verses (like Quran 4:3, 4:24, 23:6, 33:50) that seem to regulate or acknowledge the existence of slavery without outright condemnation.

@Grok

 

[Cypress]

How do you know slavery is bad?



Except the Bible gives advice to SLAVE OWNERS. How to treat a slave.

That's tacit approval.

Surprised you don't know this.

The Old Testament, were temporary ritual rules for the Jewish theocracy. You keep backtracking and moon-walking back to the Hebrew Bible.
The New Testament was a New Covenant which replaced the Jewish theocracy and replaced Hebrew ritual and administrative laws of the Torah.

ERGO: Christianity has no rule against slavery. It is not an objectively moral evil in Christianity.

It was Christians who led the slavery abolition movement. You didn't know this?

Encyclopedia Britannica reports that the rise in Christianity led to a cultural shift in the West and a diminishent in slavery.


Why did the rise in atheism lead to a rise in totalitarianism and forced slave labor?

 

[Daylight63]

Surprised you don't know this.

The Old Testament, were temporary ritual rules for the Jewish theocracy. You keep backtracking and moon-walking back to the Hebrew Bible.
The New Testament was a New Covenant which replaced the Jewish theocracy and replaced Hebrew ritual and administrative laws of the Torah.

It was Christians who led the slavery abolition movement. You didn't know this?

Encyclopedia Britannica reports that the rise in Christianity led to a cultural shift in the West and a diminishent in slavery.


Why did the rise in atheism lead to a rise in totalitarianism and forced slave labor?

Christians in the South used the Bible to defend slavery because the Bible treats it as OK

 

[Diogenes]

Christians in the South used the Bible to defend slavery because the Bible treats it as OK

Those were Democrats, weren't they?

 

[Daylight63]

Surprised you don't know this.

The Old Testament, were temporary ritual rules for the Jewish theocracy. You keep backtracking and moon-walking back to the Hebrew Bible.
The New Testament was a New Covenant which replaced the Jewish theocracy and replaced Hebrew ritual and administrative laws of the Torah.

It was Christians who led the slavery abolition movement. You didn't know this?

Encyclopedia Britannica reports that the rise in Christianity led to a cultural shift in the West and a diminishent in slavery.


Why did the rise in atheism lead to a rise in totalitarianism and forced slave labor?

You still haven't answered my first question so I will add a second one: What makes you think slavery is wrong? Who told you it was wrong and what reason did they give?

Remember the earlier question: can you think of any reason why murder might be considered "bad"?

 

[Cypress]

Christians in the South used the Bible to defend slavery because the Bible treats it as OK

Thanks for the tacit confession that Christians were leaders of the slavery abolition movement.

Christians in the American South were wrong just like atheists in the USSR and Cambodia were wrong.

 

[Cypress]

You still haven't answered my first question so I will add a second one: What makes you think slavery is wrong? Who told you it was wrong and what reason did they give?

Remember the earlier question: can you think of any reason why murder might be considered "bad"?

Easy.

1) Jesus fundamental commandment is to practice universal love, which clearly does not include kidnapping and enslaving people.

2) Natural law, which as Abraham Lincoln believed, makes it self evident that humans are endowed with the natural rights of life and liberty.

 

[Diogenes]

 

[Daylight63]

Easy.

1) Jesus fundamental commandment is to practice universal love, which clearly does not include kidnapping and enslaving people.

So why didn't Jesus mention anything about the evils of slavery when he healed the slave of the Centurion? Why didn't Jesus say anything about the wrongs of slavery in his parables like the Prodigal Son etc.? And why would PAUL HIMSELF tell slaves to be loyal and obedient to their masters in Ephesians?

2) Natural law, which as Abraham Lincoln believed, makes it self evident that humans are endowed with the natural rights of life and liberty.

Natural law. Interesting. So you can't think of ONE REASON why murder is wrong just that it somehow "is"?

That's an amazingly weak morality. I would inherently distrust someone if the ONLY reason they could tell me why murder was wrong was because they didn't know but it was somethin' somewhere.

 

[Daylight63]

Thanks for the tacit confession that Christians were leaders of the slavery abolition movement.

Thanks for your tacit confession that Christianity is OK WITH SLAVERY.

Christians in the American South were wrong just like atheists in the USSR and Cambodia were wrong.

No True Scotsman.

You keep stumbling over the least interesting fallacies in your reasoning. I am surprised.

 

[Cypress]

So why didn't Jesus mention anything about the evils of slavery when he healed the slave of the Centurion? Why didn't Jesus say anything about the wrongs of slavery in his parables like the Prodigal Son etc.? And why would PAUL HIMSELF tell slaves to be loyal and obedient to their masters in Ephesians?



Natural law. Interesting. So you can't think of ONE REASON why murder is wrong just that it somehow "is"?

That's an amazingly weak morality. I would inherently distrust someone if the ONLY reason they could tell me why murder was wrong was because they didn't know but it was somethin' somewhere.

So you claim the New Testament wrote down every word and every sentence Jesus ever spoke, rather than being a limited summary of his major teachings? I think you are wrong.

Slavery in ancient Isreal was not like chattel slavery in the Confederacy. Most slaves in Israel in Jesus' day were debt slaves who were committed to indentured servitude for a period of several years for debts they couldn't pay or crimes they had committed. They could not be held in servitude forever unless they agreed to it. Your mind is taking the Confederacy and trying to project it back 2000 years. On balance, the Atheist-inspired slavery of the Gulag was probably significantly worse than debt slavery of first century Galilee.


If you think the commandment of universal love includes kidnapping people and enslaving them, then wow it seems you entirely missed the point of Jesus' main commandment.


Yes, along with Plato, Thomas Jefferson, Kant, and Martin Luther King Junior, I believe in absolutes: natural law, categorical imperatives, natural rights, that the human conscience can instinctively apprehend or be persuaded of.

You can believe in subjective morals and relativistic materialism if you want, I didn't ask you to change.

 

[Cypress]

Thanks for your tacit confession that Christianity is OK WITH SLAVERY.



No True Scotsman.

You keep stumbling over the least interesting fallacies in your reasoning. I am surprised.

You seem to be getting frustrated, annoyed, and angry. Maybe we should take a break from this discussion.

 

[Daylight63]

So you claim the New Testament wrote down every word and every sentence Jesus ever spoke, rather than being a limited summary of his major teachings? I think you are wrong.

Ahhhh, that's convenient isn't it? Jesus could TALK ABOUT SLAVES in a positive sense but everyone forgot to write down that it was WRONG.

Slavery in ancient Isreal was not like chattel slavery in the Confederacy.

Ahhh, special pleading. I'm not surprised. And that is the usual justification for it.

If you think the commandment of universal love includes kidnapping people and enslaving them, then wow it seems you entirely missed the point of Jesus' main commandment.

No. Sorry. Your continual justifications are starting to read no better than a Fundamentalist Literalist.

 

[Daylight63]

You seem to be getting frustrated, annoyed, and angry. Maybe we should take a break from this discussion.

Just because I'm pointing out holes in your position? Well, if it would make you feel better about your losing hand.

 

[Cypress]

Just because I'm pointing out holes in your position? Well, if it would make you feel better about your losing hand.

So you're going to go back to your snarky Perry personality.

What kind of proof do you need to understand how people can believe in absolute right and wrong.

 

[Cypress]

Ahhhh, that's convenient isn't it? Jesus could TALK ABOUT SLAVES in a positive sense but everyone forgot to write down that it was WRONG.




Ahhh, special pleading. I'm not surprised. And that is the usual justification for it.




No. Sorry. Your continual justifications are starting to read no better than a Fundamentalist Literalist.

Explain to the board how Jesus' most fundamental commandment to cultivate and practice universal love somehow includes kidnapping and enslaving people.

 

[Daylight63]

So you're going to go back to your snarky Perry personality.

You actually started it. Sorry to have responded in like kind to your snark.

What kind of proof do you need to understand how people can believe in absolute right and wrong.

If you can't tell me a reason why murder is wrong then your morality has no real value. If the reason is "becuz it is natural law" that's not gonna fly. That's not a reason. That's an admission that your morality has no basis in reality.

 

[Daylight63]

Explain to the board how Jesus' most fundamental commandment to cultivate and practice universal love somehow includes kidnapping and enslaving people.

Explain to the board why Jesus was able to talk about slavery in his various parables but never said it was morally wrong?

 

[Cypress]

Explain to the board why Jesus was able to talk about slavery in his various parables but never said it was morally wrong?

He didn't have to. As you fully understand yourself - but are frantically moon-walking away from being honest enough to admit - it is manifestly self evident the fundamental commandment to cultivate universal love precludes kidnapping people and selling them into slavery.

You actually started it. Sorry to have responded in like kind to your snark.

Nope. I've merely provide my opinions. You just get yourself worked up with agitation when I present the logical deduction that denial of objective moral absolutes means one has to embrace moral subjectivity. Something Nietzsche had the honesty and integrity to do.

If you can't tell me a reason why murder is wrong then your morality has no real value.

Based on intuition, life experience, instinct, conscience, and seeking truth through literature, religion, and philosophy.

I've told you ten billion times over the past year, but you have constructed a standard of proof you require me to clear, but curiously refuse to share what the that standard is.

I'm not going to do scientific experiments involving tests tubes and mass spectrometers to prove why I believe there is absolute right and wrong.

 

[Cypress]

Explain to the board why Jesus was able to talk about slavery in his various parables but never said it was morally wrong?

^^ Completely dodges and moon-walks away from my question.