Need advice of a moral and legal nature.

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Well, I disagree, I remember as a kid getting vodka because it was cheap and didn't smell, could be mixed with juice and got the job done quickly.

Yes, we should teach our children "coping" skills, but most kids try underaged drinking at some point.


Rune, speak with your son, you obviously know what is bugging him. Just keep the lines of communication open.

It is unfortunate the store owner was not cooperative. He is pretty stupid not to have worked with you.

Your son may get in trouble, but sometimes our children need to face consequences in order to grow and not make bigger mistakes.

Counseling may be in order.

If one of your employees sold liquor to someone underage, you are liable even if you didn't know about it. You're liable even if they had a perfect fake ID. intent is utterly irrelevant, it's a statutory crime.

If you are an owner of such a business faced with someone accusing you of selling to someone underage, your best course of action is always to not cooperate or acknowledge that their accusation may be correct. Simply having an underage individual with a bottle of liquor saying they bought from your store isn't enough evidence on its own. However, if you apologize, that's a confession.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

I agree, but until he is 21, he can't drink. Work to change the law!

Meh, the law isn't the biggest deal in the world, but I would never actively cooperate with it, or tell anyone else to. Given how popular the law is, I doubt it will be repealed in my lifetime.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Many, many teens push the envelope in one way or another. It's generally a matter of degree. I believe the ones who don't get caught far outnumber the ones who do. I know parents who've let kids younger than 18 actually drink in their homes, because they say it's better than being on the street and getting caught. What kind of logic is that?

It's pretty good logic actually. A lot of states allow the underage to drink at home under the supervision of parents.

I think it's great that Dune took a stand. Maybe his son will pay for what he did, maybe not. But for all the people who think this it's "enabling" if he gets off with a stern lecture, even the justice system has an ARD program for first-time offenders. One mistake shouldn't brand the son for life.

He does not deserve to "pay" for what he did. I'm sorry, this matter should be dealt with in the home, involving the justice system is stupid.

 

[Phantasmal]

If one of your employees sold liquor to someone underage, you are liable even if you didn't know about it. You're liable even if they had a perfect fake ID. intent is utterly irrelevant, it's a statutory crime.

If you are an owner of such a business faced with someone accusing you of selling to someone underage, your best course of action is always to not cooperate or acknowledge that their accusation may be correct. Simply having an underage individual with a bottle of liquor saying they bought from your store isn't enough evidence on its own. However, if you apologize, that's a confession.

True, but there is a way of handling without confessing or being rude. You could say you don't know, thank the parent for their concern and have a meeting with the employee who was working at the time. You don't have to be an asshole, especially to a parent who is trying to work with you.

 

[BRUTALITOPS]

If one of your employees sold liquor to someone underage, you are liable even if you didn't know about it. You're liable even if they had a perfect fake ID. intent is utterly irrelevant, it's a statutory crime.

If you are an owner of such a business faced with someone accusing you of selling to someone underage, your best course of action is always to not cooperate or acknowledge that their accusation may be correct. Simply having an underage individual with a bottle of liquor saying they bought from your store isn't enough evidence on its own. However, if you apologize, that's a confession.

bingggggo.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

Next time, read all her words before being critical.

I did, so may I suggest the same for you; or you could quote the part(s) that you FEEL I missed.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

He told me. It is very difficult to convince people to buy alcohol for minors in this state these days. The buyer can be held responsible for all manner of death and destruction arising from illegal drinking.

Hell yeah it's difficult; but that doesn't make it impossible and of course he would be honest about this, seeing as how he's been so upfront with you before.

 

[Rune]

Hell yeah it's difficult; but that doesn't make it impossible and of course he would be honest about this, seeing as how he's been so upfront with you before.

Not that you would have anyway to know, but yes, he was honest about drinking, about where he got the booze, and also about how he aquired it.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

I doubt that this is his first time drinking; because most kids don't start off with Vodka.

other than beer, I think vodka is the first stuff kids try in terms of hard liquor. It's what I tried first. I think the reason is, it's one of the most well known, so newbies go to it by default.

Which appears to support my original comment.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

I wasn't trying to get him to admit anything. As a fellow business owner, my first impulse was to protect the business against a poorly performing employee.

Him agreeing with you, in any shape or form, can be seen as an admission of guilt.
Plus; now is he to know that you weren't wired and that this was some kind of "sting operation".

 

[Rune]

I did, so may I suggest the same for you; or you could quote the part(s) that you FEEL I missed.

I think you did the correct thing, 100%. It's the owner/seller that has reason to be worried, and rightfully so.

I believe you taught your son a lesson, too, even if he won't appreciate it until he's older. You showed him what a caring parent does to protect a child, and when you confronted the seller for not obeying the law re: IDs, you also showed your son that someone else's illegal actions won't be tolerated.

Good luck, and fingers crossed that the investigator won't do more than give your son a good talking-to.

How about if you explain what Christie said which you think condones my enabling him, or even implies I enable him?

 

[USFREEDOM911]

No, you're teaching the spoiled brat that he can blame others for his crime.

I think that the label of "spoiled brat" is going to far.
The kid bought alcohol, which a lot of kids do; but putting the business owner at risk of losing his license and the kid getting off scot free, is unacceptable.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

Well, I disagree, I remember as a kid getting vodka because it was cheap and didn't smell, could be mixed with juice and got the job done quickly.

Yes, we should teach our children "coping" skills, but most kids try underaged drinking at some point.


Rune, speak with your son, you obviously know what is bugging him. Just keep the lines of communication open.

It is unfortunate the store owner was not cooperative. He is pretty stupid not to have worked with you.

Your son may get in trouble, but sometimes our children need to face consequences in order to grow and not make bigger mistakes.

Counseling may be in order.

Are you saying that until that moment, you had never drank a beer?

 

[USFREEDOM911]

My little story of "underage consumption".
I had just left Job Corb and was working my first 40 a week job.
My now Brother-in-law had graduated 2 months earlier and we both were renting this cheap little trailer at this run down trailer park.

We had spent the night "partying" with some friends, at out place, and he decided to walk his girlfriend home, about a mile away.
So the party ends and everyone leaves.
I get up the next morning and have a breakfast of cold pizza and warm beer, after having warm pizza and cold beer the night before, and decided to go and see what everyone was going to do for Saturday.

Finally getting to the point:
I was standing in a parking lot hitchhiking, on the main street from where I lived, when a cop pulls up.
He gets out and asks me if I know I shouldn't be hitchhiking and I told him "Yes; but I didn't feel like walking a mile down the road, to where I was going".
He then asked me if I had been drinking and I said "Yes".
He then asked me if I wanted to tell him where I had gotten it.
I told him "No" and he asked why.
I told him that it was "Because I was probably going to want to go back there later and get more".
He looked at me and started to laugh.
Said that was the most honest answer he had had all day.
Filled out a field report card on me, told me to be safe, and left.

I was 19 at the time.

 

[zappasguitar]

Are you saying that until that moment, you had never drank a beer?

Are you saying that every person who's ever taken a drink of hard liquor first drank beer?

 

[USFREEDOM911]

Not that you would have anyway to know, but yes, he was honest about drinking, about where he got the booze, and also about how he aquired it.

But yet he found it necessary to try and use alcohol to solve a problem that he didn't feel he could talk to you about instead.
I'm not trying to bust your balls.
Kids are going to do what kids are going to do, no matter how good the parents are; but to create a situation where it could cost someone their job and your kid to not face the music also, is wrong.
Now; if you can prove that this store has a long history of doing this, then it's another matter.
But until then; this appears to be an isolated incident and there's no reason to make it a federal one.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

How about if you explain what Christie said which you think condones my enabling him, or even implies I enable him?

I think you did the correct thing, 100%. It's the owner/seller that has reason to be worried, and rightfully so.

I believe you taught your son a lesson, too, even if he won't appreciate it until he's older. You showed him what a caring parent does to protect a child...

This seems to support your decision to approach the store owner and consider reporting him; but keeping your son from facing the consequences of his actions, seeing as how she failed to show which of your posts she was responding to.

Again; what part(s) are you saying I missed?

 

[zappasguitar]

But until then; this appears to be an isolated incident and there's no reason to make it a federal one.

"Appears to be an isolated incident..."

Funny how you can draw a conclusion about an incident that happened thousands of miles from you based on nothing more than a few posts on a message board.

 

[Rune]

Him agreeing with you, in any shape or form, can be seen as an admission of guilt.
Plus; now is he to know that you weren't wired and that this was some kind of "sting operation".

First of all, I never asked to either agree with me, or admit to any wrong doing.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

First of all, I never asked to either agree with me, or admit to any wrong doing.

Post exactlly what you said to him; because below is what you said you did:

...and I drove down there to
inform the owner that one of his employees was not performing diligently, since the drinking age is 21 in Mass and liquor sellers are required to
inspect I.D.s...

After such a damning statement, what did you expect him to say.
You've already accused him of a crime.