Origin of Life
- Thread starter Cypress
- Start date
Organic compounds of carbon are actually not that unusual in the solar system.
The mystery is making the jump from inert molecules to infinitely complex cellular biology.
I have not read very much on this chondrite the Japanese studied, but there seems to be sometime special about it because it is a very low density asteroid filled with pore spaces in which interesting organic chemistry might evolve.
Thanks for your opinion.
I tend to think if something happened once in this universe (evolution of cellular biology from inert chemicals) I would generally expect to see it happen again somewhere.
Although I am prepared for the possibility that life is extremely rare, depending on a perfect storm of conditions: right kind of planet, right kind of star, right kind of orbit, right kind of chemistry, right kind of magnetic field, etc
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
I'm guessing this is the same one: https://www.lpi.usra.edu/planetary_news/2021/07/27/a-new-type-of-carbonaceous-chondrite/
well the universe is pretty damn big and we have only a very poor glimpse of a tiny fraction of it.
pretty good chance we are not the only place to see it happen IMO.
surely if God wanted to see it, he could tip that first domino anywhere he wished.
no reason to think we are the exclusive beneficiary of that grace.
I am not going to begrudge anyone who wants to think there is some guiding principle to the presence of life in the universe.
On the flipside, the laws of biochemistry and genetics seemingly indicate that random genetic mutation is a driving factor in the evolution of life.
Random mutation does not particularly strike me as a guided or designed process.
oh to be sure random genetic mutation is a thing and been doing its crazy dance for as long as there was DNA to mutate.
but we still have to push backward to where/how/when DNA came to be before we can start mutating it.
and then a home for that DNA to inhabit had to come to be first.
they've got some ideas on this of course and will continue to get more which surely will demonstrate that other equally mysterious things occurred to set up those preceding steps.
but as you push back and back and back I believe (and think really) we will come to a point that can only be comprehended kinda like this:
oh to be sure random genetic mutation is a thing and been doing its crazy dance for as long as there was DNA to mutate.
but we still have to push backward to where/how/when DNA came to be before we can start mutating it.
and then a home for that DNA to inhabit had to come to be first.
they've got some ideas on this of course and will continue to get more which surely will demonstrate that other equally mysterious things occurred to set up those preceding steps.
but as you push back and back and back I believe (and think really) we will come to a point that can only be comprehended kinda like this:
I do not think lack of understanding is implies divine intervention is responsible. But we clearly do not have a grasp on how inert organic molecules could self organize into infinitely complex cellular biology, nor do I think we are remotely close to really understanding it.
The fact that random genetic mutation ultimately led to Homo Sapiens after four billion years could be just a fluke, a whim of evolution.
NiftyNiblick
1960s Chick Magnet
Whatever the origin of life actually was,
can we at least agree that it was a fucking bad idea?
I'm off to breakfast with my old union buds. Maybe we'll discuss it at the restaurant.
Speaking of food, I just happened to look at the price per pound of the prime tenderloin roast that I bought for Christmas.
$34.99 per pound. Over two hundred bucks for a hunk of meat. And I'll probably enjoy the Christmas Eve Chinese takeout more,
not that that will be any cheaper.
If I weren't making my stomach happy, which is very important, I'd be the first to say,
Bah, Humbug!
What were we talking about? Origina of Life? Yup. Bad idea.
can we at least agree that it was a fucking bad idea?
I'm off to breakfast with my old union buds. Maybe we'll discuss it at the restaurant.
Speaking of food, I just happened to look at the price per pound of the prime tenderloin roast that I bought for Christmas.
$34.99 per pound. Over two hundred bucks for a hunk of meat. And I'll probably enjoy the Christmas Eve Chinese takeout more,
not that that will be any cheaper.
If I weren't making my stomach happy, which is very important, I'd be the first to say,
Bah, Humbug!
What were we talking about? Origina of Life? Yup. Bad idea.
I think its the very nature of evolution (fluke/whim).
And if its going on somewhere else far far away it could just as easily wind up as stick figures or platypuses or living rocks. Opposable thumbs are pretty useful so our design kinda works on many levels but its not the only way.
I think the right question to be asking is whether DNA-based life is inevitable, or does life take forms we do not recognize or are not aware of.
Evolution happens on earth because of genetic information being transmitted and modified through time by sexual selection, mutation, and geographic segregation.
For all we know, that type of evolutionary genetics is rare or unique to earth, and there might be other possibilities of life not requiring genetic information and sexual selection.
evince
Truthmatters
My son thinks the Planet was 'seeded'.
Its certainly up in the air if DNA is the only way to "manage" life (as we know it, may be vastly different ways to have life).
I'm content to focus on life "as we know it". There is a lifetime of mystery in that, probably another few hundreds of life times.
But any way you slice it, there certainly seems to be an intelligent design behind it all.
There was a good Star Trek episode about that.
But scientists hate hypotheses which can't be tested
Assuming there is not primitive life on the water worlds orbiting Jupiter and Saturn, I think the best we are going to be able to do is look for biological signatures in the atmospheric chemical spectrums of exoplanets.
We aren't even really close to understanding how inert chemicals crossed the threshold to complex cellular biology on this planet. So I think fundamental progress on this is likely to be pain-stakingly slow.
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Yes assuming that what we understand about spectrum identification applies to distant worlds.
what if they have completely new and different elements or ways to combine them ?
no, miles to go there is we even get that far but progress is happening far quicker in the past 30 years (grabbing a number out of the air) than in the previous 30 so who knows ?
and just to throw another spanner into the works, what about chi/life force or any of the many other like concepts from around the world. could IT be driving DNA alteration ? Could IT be the mojo that turns inert to "ert" ? We really know very little about this but I personally know it to be very real and tangible.
We are not going to find any new, naturally occurring elements in any measurable quantity.
Other than hydrogen, helium, lithium, all naturally-occurring elements are created in stellar nuclear fusion or super novas, and we have an extremely good handle on it from both experimental observation and from modeling..
I do not know anything about chi life force and cannot say anything intelligent about it
ParachuteAdams
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