Origin of Life

Bob had to pay someone to take the GED for him when he was 47. I'm pretty sure he has no clue what a covalent bond is, but he's frantically searching through his porn collection now to see if it's in there. :laugh:

I almost hesitate to read it's posts because I am not intetested in getting a glimpse into the pornographic fantasies of INCEL losers.
 
Yes, I know about silicon, but it is sheer speculation that silicon based life can exists.

I mentioned silicon here https://www.justplainpolitics.com/showthread.php?162896-Origin-of-Life&p=4457069#post4457069

Boob suggested I was an idiot for claiming all life as we conceive it is carbon based.

Silicon chemistry is probably not going to be as efficient as carbon in forming long chain bio-molecules and polymers

The fact that it is more abundant than carbon on our planet yet has not formed any "building blocks of life" here probably tells us something.
 
Agreed, but it's sheer speculation any life other than on Earth exists.

Biochemically, silicon can work. Such a life form may not need oxygen to thrive. They would be happy on gas giants.

FWIW, everything Bobbie says should be verified since his suitcase is not longer tightly packed.

It would be cool to find silicon based life.

Our conception of life may be very limited, but at this point anything besides carbon based life is sheer speculation
 
The fact that it is more abundant than carbon on our planet yet has not formed any "building blocks of life" here probably tells us something.

A good point.

We still do not even have broad scientific agreement on a definition of life, so at this point we are going to have to assume life is based on DNA and carbon, until evidence shows otherwise.
 
It would be cool to find silicon based life.

Our conception of life may be very limited, but at this point anything besides carbon based life is sheer speculation

LOL Limited to a single planet in a Universe of over two trillion galaxies each with about 100 billion stars. Fascinating.

giphy.gif


Star Trek trivia; Kirk, Bones and Spock form Freud's Ego, Id and Superego. The reasonable self, one's emotional instincts and the wisdom and knowledge taught by others.
 
The fact that it is more abundant than carbon on our planet yet has not formed any "building blocks of life" here probably tells us something.

...or because mankind killed it off early in our development. :)

For all we know, silicon life is feeding on the wreckage of Amelia Earhart's Electra 110 and MH370.
 
I currently lean towards number two, but keep an open mind.
It would be nice if we had more intel on emergence: the transition from non-life to life. There is zero chance something as mind boggling complex as even a single eukaryotic cell just appeared on the scene without an incredible sequence of interim events. Unless we were seeded from another planetary body.

I lean toward #3, but I'm not conceding that it was a "good" inevitability.
 
...or because mankind killed it off early in our development. :)

For all we know, silicon life is feeding on the wreckage of Amelia Earhart's Electra 110 and MH370.

We've only been here for the blink of a geological eye so that's unlikely. Give us time though. lol

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LOL Limited to a single planet in a Universe of over two trillion galaxies each with about 100 billion stars. Fascinating.

giphy.gif


Star Trek trivia; Kirk, Bones and Spock form Freud's Ego, Id and Superego. The reasonable self, one's emotional instincts and the wisdom and knowledge taught by others.

In terms of conventional matter, there may be some rare, exotic elements out there we have not discovered -- but we have an excellent idea of the chemical elements which form the universe, and this has been confirmed by observations of mass spectra of stars.

Life in any conceivable form we would recognize would have to result from long chains and polymers of covalently bonded molecules.

There are no other atoms in the periodic table capable of doing that, besides carbon. Silicon might be the closest chemical cousin to carbon, but silicon life is still the realm of science fiction.

Now, I am not a degreed chemist, but I really wanted Boob to follow up and explain what exactly I got wrong about the chemistry of life
 
In terms of conventional matter, there may be some rare, exotic elements out there we have not discovered -- but we have an excellent idea of the chemical elements which form the universe, and this has been confirmed by observations of mass spectra of stars.

Life in any conceivable form we would recognize would have to result from long chains and polymers of covalently bonded molecules.

There are no other atoms in the periodic table capable of doing that, besides carbon. Silicon might be the closest chemical cousin to carbon, but silicon life is still the realm of science fiction.

Now, I am not a degreed chemist, but I really wanted Boob to follow up and explain what exactly I got wrong about the chemistry of life

All true, but other life is also "still in the realm of science fiction".
 
The Human Genome

Somewhere between 3.5 and 4 billion years ago, The first cells resembling modern cells emerged.

Every living thing on the planet is a descendant of that cell.

Human and chimpanzee genomes are still 99% identical.

The last common ancestor of chimps and humans lived five million years ago, and gave rise not just to to us but dozens of other primate and hominid species.

Homo Sapiens diverged from Neaderthals about 750,000 years ago, when pre-Neaderthals migrated to Europe and ancestral Homo Sapiens stayed behind in Africa.

Neaderthals survived until 30,000 years ago, when anatomically modern Homo Sapiens displaced them from Europe.

Genomic analysis indicates that Neaderthals had the FOXP2 gene and had the capacity for language.

Leading us to wonder if we would treat Neaderthals as persons if they were alive today.


Source: notes from genetics class, Professor Lee Silver.
 
These carbonaceous chondrites might be the origin for how Earth was seeded with organic molecules.

(CNN)Just over a year after Japan's Hayabusa2 mission returned the first subsurface sample of an asteroid to Earth, scientists have determined that the near-Earth asteroid Ryugu is a pristine remnant from the formation of our solar system.

This was the first material to be returned to Earth from a carbon-rich asteroid. These asteroids can reveal how our cosmic corner of the universe was formed.

The organic and hydrated minerals locked within these asteroids could also shed light on the origin of the building blocks of life.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cn...ld/ryugu-asteroid-sample-study-scn/index.html
 
We are stardust

We are golden

We are billion year old carbon

And we've got to get ourselves

Back to the garden.
 
These carbonaceous chondrites might be the origin for how Earth was seeded with organic molecules.

Any idea how the materials got into a failed planet?

http://www.cosmosup.com/how-did-the-asteroid-belt-form/
According to this mathematical equation, there SHOULD be a planet in between Mars and Jupiter, and a planet TRIED to form but Jupiter’s massive gravity tore it asunder. It just couldn’t do it. Of course, we know that NOW, but from the 18th and into the 19th century, people believed they simply hadn’t spotted the elusive planet yet.

https://www.space.com/16105-asteroid-belt.html
Occasionally people wonder whether the belt was made up of the remains of a destroyed planet, or a world that didn't quite get started. However, according to NASA, the total mass of the belt is less than the moon, far too small to weigh in as a planet. Instead, the debris is shepherded by Jupiter, which kept it from coalescing onto other growing planets.

Observations of other planets are helping scientists to better understand the solar system. According to a developing theory known as Grand Tack, in the first 5 million years of the solar system, Jupiter and Saturn are thought to have moved inward toward the sun before changing direction and heading back to the outer solar system. Along the way, they would have scattered the original asteroid belt before them, then sent material flying back to refill it....

...Asteroids are classified into several types based on their chemical composition and their reflectivity, or albedo.

  • C-type asteroids make up more than 75 percent of known asteroids. The "C" stands for carbon, and the surfaces of these extremely dark asteroids are almost coal-black. Carbonaceous chondrite meteorites on Earth have a similar composition, and are thought to be pieces smashed off of the larger asteroids. While C-type asteroids dominate in the belt, according to the European Space Agency, they make up only about 40 percent of the asteroids closer to the sun. These include subgroups of B-type, F-type, and G-types.
  • S-type asteroids are the second most common type, making up about 17 percent of known asteroids. They dominate the inner asteroid belt, becoming rarer farther out. They are brighter and have metallic nickel-iron mixed with iron- and magnesium-silicates. The "S" stands for silicaceous.
  • M-type asteroids ("M" for metallic) are the last major type. These asteroids are fairly bright and most of them are composed of pure nickel-iron. They tend to be found in the middle region of the asteroid belt.
  • The remaining rare types of asteroids are A-type, D-type, E-type, P-type, Q-type, and R-type.
 
I always thought that was a great tune

The Jefferson Airplane version at Woodstock (20 minutes worth!) is awesome too. Definitely a 60s song. :D

The history of the song is unusual: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wooden_Ships

"Wooden Ships" is a song written and composed by David Crosby, Paul Kantner, and Stephen Stills, of which versions were eventually recorded both by Crosby, Stills & Nash and by Jefferson Airplane; Kantner was a founding member of the latter group. It was written and composed in 1968 in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, on a boat named the Mayan, owned by Crosby, who composed the music, while Kantner and Stills wrote most of the lyrics.

 
I currently lean towards number two, but keep an open mind.
It would be nice if we had more intel on emergence: the transition from non-life to life. There is zero chance something as mind boggling complex as even a single eukaryotic cell just appeared on the scene without an incredible sequence of interim events. Unless we were seeded from another planetary body.

I see it as ultimately #1.
Like an onion, science peels back layers of chemistry/physics/etc explaining how certain steps toward life came to be and thats great.
But I believe (not think) once that last layer is uncovered the first step will be a miracle aka the hand of the Creator.

I have no problem with science nor do I believe it is incompatible with faith.

God is not hiding anything but rather I believe (not think) he is guiding our learning as fast as we are capable of understanding it.

Obviously not all Christians agree with me and thats ok too. God reveals himself to us as we are capable of understanding it. He is all about interacting with us all as individuals as opposed to some generic pidgeon holed bloc. It is men who insist that we self pidgeon hole. Its easier to control us that way.
 
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