APP - Pro-choicer kills anti-abortionist

apple0154 said:
I always had the impression conservatives, if not being overly religious, prescribed to Biblical principals such as not being loud and aggressive and their wanting to help others. When Obama tries to bring civility to government or attempts to make medical services available to all the Conservatives fight against it to the point of yelling "Liar" and talk about fascism and communism.

It's most peculiar and definately an eye-opener. Maybe it's all good. Maybe it's time to see what the Conservative really stands for.
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Thanks for admitting that you don't have a clue what real Americans are like.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
yes there is....and there has been....for hundreds of years...society has never had difficulty dealing with this conflict before and there is no reason to have trouble dealing with it in the future....
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"Before" is the key word. Why? Because for thousands of years people were sheep. They simply obeyed authority, regardless.

But times have changed. Fewer and fewer people are swayed by deals like the one between Napoleon III and Pope Pius IX, circa 1869. People, well, most folks, demand logic and equality and all those little nuisance things that get in the way of politicians trying to cram garbage down people's throats.

People are more educated. They question laws. They think things through and when something comes along like saying a fetus is a human being they think through what that means. The consequences. How does that play out? Then they realize it doesn't play out, at all.

It involves taking one of the most basic rights away from a woman, those involving her body. Then it involves automatically taking the most basic right away from another human being (assuming a fetus is designated as such) by saying their life is always inferior to that of a woman.

Can it be anymore twisted? Convoluted? Completely illogical? Crazy?

That's why abortion is legal in most developed countries. Canada, USA, United Kingdom, France, Germany, Italy, Norway, Sweden, the Netherlands, Australia.........

We can't turn back the clock. People have become aware, either directly or indirectly, that claiming a fetus is a human being doesn't play out. It doesn't work. It doesn't fit.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
another fucking straw man.....the 47 million children killed in the US since 1972 weren't sick and wouldn't have ended up in a hospital for sick children.....why won't you deal honestly with this issue.....
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I'm dealing honestly with the issue. I and most everyone else wish there were less abortions for a number of reasons but the solution is not to classify fetuses as human beings and then start twisting things so they fit in. That's the problem.

Proposing the lives of members one group of human beings (mothers) is always superior to the lives of another group of human beings (fetuses) is hardly a straw man. It goes against everything our society and culture stand for which is equality.

If exceptions can be made for one group of human beings then they can be made for other groups. What is about that statement you are having difficulty understanding?

History has taught us, over and over, exceptions are very, very bad. Do you not know that? Do you not believe that? Do you not care? Let's deal honestly with this issue.
 
usaloyal2theend said:
Oh shoot Free! You know Apple. The only thing he's really interested in is the act that makes the baby. The actual infant is just collateral damage.
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Now that's not true. I've engaged in serious pillow talk after the act with questions like, "Got anything good in the fridge to eat?" to "What did you say your name was?"
 
apple0154 said:
History has taught us, over and over, exceptions are very, very bad. Do you not know that? Do you not believe that? Do you not care? Let's deal honestly with this issue.
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History has shown us that humanity has dealt successfully with this issue......your argument is illegitimate and I am done repeating myself....
 
PostmodernProphet said:
History has shown us that humanity has dealt successfully with this issue....
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Yes, most of humanity has dealt successfully with it. Recently, that is. The one who bears the child and is primarily responsible for it is the most qualified to determine if they should bear a child.

Seems like plain, old common sense to me but as they say, "Common sense is not all that common."
 
apple0154 said:
Yes, most of humanity has dealt successfully with it. Recently, that is. The one who bears the child and is primarily responsible for it is the most qualified to determine if they should bear a child.

Seems like plain, old common sense to me but as they say, "Common sense is not all that common."
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But dehumanizing babies isn't the answer. It just doesn't fit.
 
Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
Okay people, let's cut the crap.

For years, the anti-abortion rights folk were not only against abortion for any reason, but against any sex education in our public schools. The mantra use to be that sex education promotes promiscuity....which was just fucking dumb, given that the whole abortion issue came about because a whole lot of teens were getting knocked up BEFORE sex ed was ever an issue. And the kicker was/is that the same anti-abortion folk wail like banshees about any form of social welfare, or legalization of contraceptives for teens of driving age.

So the anti-abortion folk just don't give a damn about real people....just as long as their personal ideology and religious beliefs are not disturbed when they open the morning paper or watch/listen to the news.
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Southern Man said:
Babies aren't real people?
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Yes they are, and a cluster bomb or "surgical strike" doesn't discriminate. Babies are real people, not "collateral damage".

My point is that if all the anti-abortion wailers were SO serious about perserving life, then the vast majority of them WOULD NOT have so whole heartedly supported a bogus war....the vast majority of them would NOT whole heartedly fight against welfare programs that help children born out of wedlock SURVIVE...nor would they fight to maintain a health insurance system that values the $$ bottom line over life in many instances.

Let me be clear, given the medical advancements in my lifetime, there should never be another abortion in America unless the life of the mother is endanger or the impregnation is due to rape and it's her decision to abort. But because of moronic adherence to religious dogma and antiquated social stigmas, our society is preventing comprehensive, realistic sex education and access to birth control for who need it. So until this country gets it's head out of it's idealogical ass, abortion is a needed.
 
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Taichiliberal said:
Yes they are, and a cluster bomb or "surgical strike" doesn't discriminate. Babies are real people, not "collateral damage".

My point is that if all the anti-abortion wailers were SO serious about perserving life, then the vast majority of them WOULD NOT have so whole heartedly supported a bogus war....the vast majority of them would NOT whole heartedly fight against welfare programs that help children born out of wedlock SURVIVE...nor would they fight to maintain a health insurance system that values the $$ bottom line over life in many instances.

Let me be clear, given the medical advancements in my lifetime, there should never be another abortion in America unless the life of the mother is endanger or the impregnation is due to rape and it's her decision to abort. But because of moronic adherence to religious dogma and antiquated social stigmas, our society is preventing comprehensive, realistic sex education and access to birth control for who need it. So until this country gets it's head out of it's idealogical ass, abortion is a needed.
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Wow we're talking about abortion and you bring up war. I'm surprised you didn't bring up another irrelevant topic like health care.

You liberals are F-U-C-K-E-D up. :)
 
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