Prostitution........The Next Libertarian Debate

Rose said:
What I'm saying is that individuals' circumstances are largely determined by externalities, not choice. When those circumstances (lack of work skills, is an example you gave) dictate whiter a person enters into prostitution, we're dealing with coercion.
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no we're not. to call it coercion is ignorance.
 
Rose said:
Why? I made my case, so make yours.
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You have not made a case. You just redefine enticement to coercion.

We have a safety net. One can go on welfare and meet their minimum needs. There are plenty of jobs that don't require any real skill. A person would choose prostitution over that only because it pays better or suits them. That's not coercion and if it is then coercion really is nothing to worry about.

My concerns would be real coercion, say of undocumented workers or some other form of blackmail.

At a minimum, prostitution should be decriminalized.
 
We KNOW there are prostitutes currently that are coerced into it due to economics. Girls/women are brought from overseas on the promise of a cleaning job, and they end up as prostitutes. Happens here, happens in Amsterdam, happens in a lot of countries. They own the person who brought them over, they have to work at it. It also happens to runaways - they need money to survive, they get into prostitution.

Now there are women who aren't coerced by economics; they check out the job market, there are other things they could do, but prostitution's hours and pay strike them as the best way to go, so they enter the profession. That isn't coercion if they have other choices, anymore than choosing to be a cop rather than a secretary is coercion

However - they need the other opportunities available. If the only non-skilled job opening for women that pays a living wage is prostitution, then that could be seen as economic coercion.

But we're heading down the road of "word definition" and that's never productive.
 
tekkychick said:
We KNOW there are prostitutes currently that are coerced into it due to economics. Girls/women are brought from overseas on the promise of a cleaning job, and they end up as prostitutes.
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false. that is not a 'decision' based on economics. that is fraud followed by indentured servitude. not even a distant equivalent.
 
Prostitution....ok...let's talk about it.

Ok...on the surface, it seems like a pretty OK thing to legalize. However....when you delve deeper, I think most prostitutes are exploited people.

Yes, I am sure there are some women or men who engage in the world's oldest profession of their own free will and have an exit strategy when their marketable assets(looks, etc) diminish with age.

However, MOST of these people are NOT those types of people. Many are runaways, drug addicts, alcoholics, mentally ill, etc...and are easy targets for exploitation.

Furthermore...if we legalize prostitution, our attitudes towards "wayward women" will have to do a 180 degree shift. They will become legitimized and attain respectable status in our society. How much of our population could handle that?

I mean, just in the debates we have about abortion, we see people calling normal women who have an unintended pregnancy sluts, whores and women who "can't keep their legs closed".

Which brings up another dilemna....there WILL be pregnancies. Who is responsible?
 
Rose said:
Let me pose two questions to those in support of prostitution: Can you think of any reason aside from economic ones, for a person to become a prostitute? And would this person, if offered suitable, reputable employment, pass up on such an offer?
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Yes. I've know several call girls/escorts.....what ever you want to call them. Both of them told me a pretty similiar story. Neither was well educated both were quite attractive, they liked sex and they could make far more money than even at a "reasonable job". Were not talking drug addicted crack ho's now. They both told a similiar story. They'd book a hotel room, see between 2 to 4 johns a day. Work out of that Hotel for a week or two and then travel to a new location. They would make in the neighborhood of a thousand dollars a day. Sometimes more. They worked a schedule of two weeks on and four weeks off and would make around $10,000 to $15,000 per two week stint. Making around between $100,000 and $200,000/year, mostly tax free revenue working 17 to 18 weeks a year.

Now how many so called "reputable jobs" are there where you can make over $100,000 per year for part time work?
 
Steelplate said:
Prostitution....ok...let's talk about it.

Ok...on the surface, it seems like a pretty OK thing to legalize. However....when you delve deeper, I think most prostitutes are exploited people.

Yes, I am sure there are some women or men who engage in the world's oldest profession of their own free will and have an exit strategy when their marketable assets(looks, etc) diminish with age.

However, MOST of these people are NOT those types of people. Many are runaways, drug addicts, alcoholics, mentally ill, etc...and are easy targets for exploitation.

Furthermore...if we legalize prostitution, our attitudes towards "wayward women" will have to do a 180 degree shift. They will become legitimized and attain respectable status in our society. How much of our population could handle that?

I mean, just in the debates we have about abortion, we see people calling normal women who have an unintended pregnancy sluts, whores and women who "can't keep their legs closed".

Which brings up another dilemna....there WILL be pregnancies. Who is responsible?
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I dunno....i've been to parts of the world that simply don't have our attitudes about the worlds oldest profession. It's not prestigious there and no one wants their daughter to grow up to be a sex worker.....but in lots of parts of the third world it's pretty tacitly understood the near universal truth. Pretty young women like to have fun, party and go shopping and older men like to pay pretty young women for sex.

Let me give you a scenario......you go to a nightclub in an economically depressed area. You meet an attracitve young lady at the club, you dance and drink and laugh and have fun and go back to your hotel room and have sex. Nothing about money for sex is ever mentioned. The next morning you stuff X dollars in her pocket for "Cab Fare" in excess of what's needded for a cab, as she goes her way and you go yours. Is the young woman described in this scenario a prostitute?
 
Mott the Hoople said:
I dunno....i've been to parts of the world that simply don't have our attitudes about the worlds oldest profession. It's not prestigious there and no one wants their daughter to grow up to be a sex worker.....but in lots of parts of the third world it's pretty tacitly understood the near universal truth. Pretty young women like to have fun, party and go shopping and older men like to pay pretty young women for sex.

Let me give you a scenario......you go to a nightclub in an economically depressed area. You meet an attracitve young lady at the club, you dance and drink and laugh and have fun and go back to your hotel room and have sex. Nothing about money for sex is ever mentioned. The next morning you stuff X dollars in her pocket for "Cab Fare" in excess of what's needded for a cab, as she goes her way and you go yours. Is the young woman described in this scenario a prostitute?
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I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. You're right...other parts of the world DON'T have our attitudes towards sex, prostitution and women in general. That would have to change before the idea of legalization could be thrown on the American people.

As far as my stance? IF we are going to have reasonable guarantees that would minimize women being exploited(I don't think you can eliminate it completely), then I view it much like abortion and gay marriage....If you don't like abortion....don't have one. If you don't agree with homosexuality, don't participate. If you don't like prostitution, don't visit or be a prostitute.

That's what Personal Responsibility REALLY is all about.

I've never been to a titty bar, let alone a prostitute. I've always been very monogamous and even when I was single, I'd rather jack off than to jump through the hoops necessary for a one night stand. But that's me.
 
Rose said:
Let me pose two questions to those in support of prostitution: Can you think of any reason aside from economic ones, for a person to become a prostitute? And would this person, if offered suitable, reputable employment, pass up on such an offer?
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Freedom of action, of body, and of choice are all arguments in favor of legalized prostitution. As for would they choose it, look at porn. Many porn stars are also escorts, and both careers are all voluntary. Clearly there are factors beyond simple economics at play.
 
Rose said:
No, they should not. Because the reasons behind choosing are, in this case, a form of coercion. One may not want to be a prostitute, but out of circumstance and a need for an income, they are forced to.
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The same can be said for any profession.
 
I would also take issue with the idea that prostitution is a 'unskilled' trade. I've been with more than a few women in my time, and I can say with ease that not all of them are equal in level of skill.
 
Attila the Hun said:
Your attitude is wearing quickly on my paitence. For someone who claims to be an 'adult' you've yet to make a single statement the shows this.

No, you mouth breather, I don't believe in a sin tax. That's the state trying to discourage behavior that is not illegal, which is not the business of the state.
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Who says it's not the business of the state? The 10 gives the states power..
 
SmarterthanYou said:
it is completely impossible to take you seriously when you are so far off in your thinking.
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It's no secret that I hold a grudge against Right Wingers for many things. But to compare, I also grudge on Christians for lots of things. Ghandi said, "I like your Christ but dislike your Christians" Much like I like the party base, but dislike the Republican IDIOTS. :)
 
Attila the Hun said:
I would also take issue with the idea that prostitution is a 'unskilled' trade. I've been with more than a few women in my time, and I can say with ease that not all of them are equal in level of skill.
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"unskilled trade" means they don't have to pass any tests or meet any requirements to be a prostitute. Or maybe your post was facetious.
 
*most won't believe this because they pre-judge me*

I believe in Liberty. But when a certain Liberty takes away the Liberties of others, then I have to weight the balance. Libertarians take stances on many topics that only provides the Liberty of one and directly affects the Liberties of many others. Basically it's selfish Liberty.

I'm really torn on this topic now, I wasn't before. Fox News Libertarian Radio really had me going on "who are we to control them" and "we can't control their life". But after reading all the posts I agree that it should be legal, but policed and regulated. And Libertarians want nothing to do with regulations........or police for that matter.

I was a Yes.......Now I'm only a maybe.
 
Anti-Party said:
So let's use "Risk vs. Reward".
A)Risk....I guess married men or women would have the option to pay for sex which would possibly jeopardize the Liberty of their entire family to be raised as a normal family.
B)Reward....TONS of taxation. Hookers are paid BIG. Of course this amount would go down with legalization. Also, there is indirect proof that people who go without sex for a long period of time make bad sexual decisions.

So what do you think people?
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The first problem I see is your "Risk". It isn't the prostitution that causes the risk. It is the behavior of the married person that creates the risk. That is not caused by the prostitute.


But yes, prostitution should be legal.
 
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