Putin fears NATO

[Althea]

And if you helped Afghanistan keep its air superiority their army probably wouldn't have collapsed.

When we stopped spreading billions of dollars among the army, it lost interest. The army surrendered without putting up a fight. Because trump cut our puppet Afg. govt. out of the talks when he surrendered, there was essentially nobody commanding the army you reference.

 

[Althea]

That is why Estonia, Lithuania, Lativia joined NATO, and why Ukraine and Georgia aspire to --> to deter Kremlin imperialism.

And it looks like those countries have a perfectly valid reason for fearing Russian imperialism.

Putin has guaranteed that NATO must expand. Russia cannot be trusted until someone like Navalny is in office.

Which might be never

 

[Althea]

Bosnia and Herzegovina, Kosovo, and Georgia need to be fast tracked as NATO members as soon as they meet the qualifications.

If not for Manafort, Ukraine would already be in NATO

 

[Althea]

I am glad we are out of that country.

The Afghan National Army obviously only existed on paper. They were riddled with Taliban sympathizers and corruption, and they evaporated in about a week rather than stand and fight.

I don't believe in defending people who aren't interested in defending themselves.I will take one platoon of Ukranian soldiers instead of a brigade of the erstwhile Afghan National Army.

Exactly. It's no secret that we were dumping billions into the country, bribing our way through the villages. The select few were living the good life, going right back to being our enemy as we moved to the next village.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Cypress,

Yes, I think Putin deludes himself with a messianic vision of a unified greater Holy Russia uniting all Russian speakers.

His mind is gripped by outdated 20th century geopolitics, infused with a religious fervor concerning an imaginary manifest destiny of greater Orthodox Rus empire.

Sounds accurate. Only someone not in possession of the vital facts of his actual military capability would have attacked Ukraine and thought he could have a three day romp to total submission.

The man is dangerously foolish in possession of power. He is irresponsible. He should be removed from power.

 

[Althea]

Putin still has the Soviet Era belief that NATO is an offensive military threat even though historical evidence is absolutely contrary to this belief.

When you control the entire media, historical evidence accounts for nothing.

 

[Althea]

Its a very defensible base specially when you control the sky. And if you helped Afghanistan keep its air superiority their army probably wouldn't have collapsed.

Nope. That's just wrong. But...our real reason for staying in Afg. so long was to have proximity to Pakistan. We have no faith in the Pakistan govt's ability to protect its nukes from the Taliban.

 

[ExpressLane]

Nope. That's just wrong. But...our real reason for staying in Afg. so long was to have proximity to Pakistan. We have no faith in the Pakistan govt's ability to protect its nukes from the Taliban.

And that hasn't changed has it. When the US abandoned Afghanistan the Afghan Air Force lost its American contrators that maintained its air force and thus lost its air superiority that helped cause their military to crumble.



Without U.S. contractors, the Afghan military will lose its main advantage over the Taliban — air power

The Afghan security forces rely heavily on U.S.-funded contractors to repair and maintain their fleet of aircraft and armored vehicles and a whole array of other equipment. But the roughly 18,000 contractors are due to depart within weeks, along with most of the U.S. military contingent, as part of Washington's agreement with the Taliban to withdraw all "foreign" troops.

Without the contractors' help, Afghan forces will no longer be able to keep dozens of fighter planes, cargo aircraft, U.S.-made helicopters and drones flying for more than a few more months, according to military experts and a recent Defense Department inspector general's report.

 

[Althea]

And that hasn't changed has it.

Not at all, but there comes a point where you have to let someone else police the world. Our infrastructure is crumbling, and we waste trillions overseas.

It took decades to end Dubyah's major fuckup in the region.

The damage will never be undone. We just can't spend the money anymore

 

[Cypress]

Putin still has the Soviet Era belief that NATO is an offensive military threat even though historical evidence is absolutely contrary to this belief.

True, from our perspective.

For Russians of a certain age (old) I can kinda sorta understand why they could be supiciuous of western intentions.

USA, France, Britain sent expeditionary forces to invade Russia in 1918-19 to intervene militarily in domestic Russian affairs. In the minds of some Russians, NATO is just the latest permutation of a long-standing Anglo-American-French partnership.

I also think until Russians over the age of 50 are dead, there is always going to be some trepidation about the potential future threat of a remilitarized united Germany.

 

[Cypress]

Exactly. It's no secret that we were dumping billions into the country, bribing our way through the villages. The select few were living the good life, going right back to being our enemy as we moved to the next village.

Congratulations to Biden for finally getting us out of a futile situation. .

 

[ExpressLane]

Not at all, but there comes a point where you have to let someone else police the world. Our infrastructure is crumbling, and we waste trillions overseas.

It took decades to end Dubyah's major fuckup in the region.

The damage will never be undone. We just can't spend the money anymore

Correct the damage caused by the chaotic disgraceful panicked way the US withdrew from Afghanistan will never be undone.

 

[anatta]

So you admit Russia is afraid to go up against NATO. Then Finland absolutely should join!

you have a good guy /bad guy mentality that leads to war.
You are far from alone - but making a situation more hair triggered unstable is not in anyone's best interesst

 

[anatta]

I believe were should have kept Bagram Airbase. It was easily defensible and would have protected American contractors working on Afghan aircraft. Afghan aircover would have prevented the collapse of the ADF.

Trump predicated our withdrawal on The Taliban not attacking and they violated that agreement.

No, Trump Didn’t Force Biden’s Withdrawal
The Taliban violated the Doha agreement, so the U.S. could have stayed.

agreed
you are talking to a moran (sic -Althea) who calls the Biden botched EVAC "Trumps surrender"

 

[anatta]

I am glad we are out of that country.

The Afghan National Army obviously only existed on paper. They were riddled with Taliban sympathizers and corruption, and they evaporated in about a week rather than stand and fight.

I don't believe in defending people who aren't interested in defending themselves.I will take one platoon of Ukranian soldiers instead of a brigade of the erstwhile Afghan National Army.

incorrect
once we pulled the contractors out the ANAF could not get up in the air, and e trained them to coordinate with air power
10's of thousands ANAF forces died in battle they were not cowards

It's true they could not survive without our contractor and Bagram, but to say they would not fight is a lie

 

[anatta]

Absolutely none, it’s why I don’t play armchair general, Trump negotiated for a complete withdrawal, staying at the base would mean we were still at war with Afghanistan.

and if we stayed there with only 2500 and none getting killed in battle ?
No Americans in the last 18 month of Trump were KIA
We have long term presense in many countries

whatever we decided blew up in Bidens face and killed 13 American because he went to a political withdrawal date instead of conditioned withdrawal

 

[Phantasmal]

Congratulations to Biden for finally getting us out of a futile situation. .

Amen

 

[anatta]

Biden inherited the Afghan Army Trump trained and armed

Trump had four years to train and arm the Afghan army.

It sounds like Trump did a terrible job.


But I notice you didn't disagree with me that defending people who aren't willing to defend themselves is a futile policy objective.

I dont even know where to start unpacking this bullshit

 

[BartenderElite]

and if we stayed there with only 2500 and none getting killed in battle ?
No Americans in the last 18 month of Trump were KIA
We have long term presense in many countries

whatever we decided blew up in Bidens face and killed 13 American because he went to a political withdrawal date instead of conditioned withdrawal

The 13 casualties are why we don't get into war in the 1st place. Getting out of such an unstable, violent situation with that level of casualties is actually remarkable.

It would have taken 5,000 to secure Bagram - and it certainly would have led to more casualties than that, given the changing situation in Afghanistan.

Armchair generals, as always.

 

[anatta]

Putin still has the Soviet Era belief that NATO is an offensive military threat even though historical evidence is absolutely contrary to this belief.

NATO expansion is an aggressive posture right on Putins doorstep
It also was against the stated promise to Gorby NATO would not expand past Germany

arming up Ukraine with high tech weapons even under Trump ( JAVELIN etc.)
turned what should have been a neutral state into a defacto NATO state

It all started with our meddling in the Euromaidan when we fomented revolution to throw out the
legitimate pro-Russian president
Vicky Nuland and Susan Powers are still in the Biden adm -
all were complicit and on the ground at the Maidan

Susan Rice is also there -the mother of "Viagra rape" lies that we used as an excuse to take out Qadaffi
and that turned Libya into a terrorist state

I wonder if you see the pattern here...