Question for people who want both universal healthcare and open borders

cawacko said:
But ultimately we don't address the underlying cause. It's a combination of the desire of people to come here to improve their lot in life and our desire for cheap (often unskilled) labor. There needs to be a fundamental change in how we address immigration and just putting a wall up isn't going to do it.
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I've always said that Trump never had any intention of building the wall because his rich puppet-masters want cheap labor. Like the Leftists used to say, before they got cucked, allowing in third world immigrants drags down wages. And that's what both Republicans and Democrats want.

But when it comes to true Leftists, who aren't concerned with making the rich richer and see falling wages as a bad thing, I think they have to answer for how they want both generous welfare and open borders. We know the Conservatives want lower wages and don't want free healthcare, so they have less to answer for on this topic.
 
JoeFromFargo said:
I've never met anybody that wants open borders, so I can't speak for them, but I do believe medical care should be given to anybody that needs it. This really isn't controversial. Even Ronald Reagan accepted it to some extent; he signed EMTALA into law, which prohibits hospitals from denying emergency treatment based on one's ability to pay.
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If an illegal immigrant gets hurt and needs immediate medical assistance, they should get that. I don't think anyone should be left to die.
However, after that person's life is saved, they should be deported or jailed. If we don't deport these people, then we have open borders.
 
StoneByStone said:
If an illegal immigrant gets hurt and needs immediate medical assistance, they should get that. I don't think anyone should be left to die.
However, after that person's life is saved, they should be deported or jailed. If we don't deport these people, then we have open borders.
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Deportation should not be a consequence of seeking medical attention; this would discourage them from seeking care to begin with.
 
StoneByStone said:
In the Democrat primary debates, they all criticized Biden for being VP and not doing anything to stop Obama from deporting ILLEGAL immigrants. Biden himself distanced himself, saying he was "only the vice president" which was hilarious.
None of them used the term "open borders," but if you're allowing anyone to come here, then that is open borders.
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No one is "allowing anyone to come here" -- people have to apply for visas just like everywhere else. If you're talking about ppl coming here illegally, then they're coming here against the law. IOW, that's not "open borders."
 
cawacko said:
But ultimately we don't address the underlying cause. It's a combination of the desire of people to come here to improve their lot in life and our desire for cheap (often unskilled) labor. There needs to be a fundamental change in how we address immigration and just putting a wall up isn't going to do it.
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This. You won the Innernetz tonight.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
No one is "allowing anyone to come here" -- people have to apply for visas just like everywhere else. If you're talking about ppl coming here illegally, then they're coming here against the law. IOW, that's not "open borders."
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If people who come here illegally are not deported and also get generous benefits, then that is open borders. Maybe it isn't on the books, but it's still open borders in practice and that's what matters.
 
StoneByStone said:
No, but if an illegal does go to a hospital, what is supposed to happen after they get medical treatment? Should illegal immigrants get amnesty if they go to a hospital?
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No, they shouldn't get amnesty, but they should be allowed to receive medical attention and leave without incident. Tying deportation to care will cause them to take unnecessary risks with their lives/the lives of their children. There are plenty of other ways to track them down and deport them, wouldn't you agree?
 
StoneByStone said:
If people who come here illegally are not deported and also get generous benefits, then that is open borders. Maybe it isn't on the books, but it's still open borders in practice and that's what matters.
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I don't know anyone who supports that. I think you're arguing with a ghost.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
That seems like a no-brainer.

That being said, who's for open borders?
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All of the Democrats in the primaries. During the primaries, Obama was relentlessly criticized for deporting illegal immigrants. Biden, who was criticized for not speaking out against Obama, distanced himself by saying he was only the vice president.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
I don't know anyone who supports that. I think you're arguing with a ghost.
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As I already said, all of the Democrats bashed Obama for deporting illegal immigrants, with the exception of Biden who pretended he had no say in the matter. So yes, there are people who support not deporting illegals. The Democrats also all agreed that illegal immigrants should get healthcare if they can't afford it.
I agree that if an illegal is rushed to the hospital, they should get emergency healthcare. But if someone is against deporting illegals, and even in favor of encouraging more illegals through welfare programs, then that is supporting open borders.
 
JoeFromFargo said:
No, they shouldn't get amnesty, but they should be allowed to receive medical attention and leave without incident. Tying deportation to care will cause them to take unnecessary risks with their lives/the lives of their children. There are plenty of other ways to track them down and deport them, wouldn't you agree?
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Sure, but then we're treating this one type of criminal differently from other types of criminals. Should the same rules apply to burgles on the run from the law?
This would also encourage illegals to come here specifically to use our hospitals. It's one thing to allow hospital access, but we shouldn't sweeten the deal by also saying if we find out you're a criminal, you still get to walk.
 
StoneByStone said:
Is this possible? Would it not cause more illegal immigration and third world immigration in general, making it impossible to cover everyone living in America?
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Not sure if this was brought up yet since I haven't read through. The thing is you have to be a citizen to get the stuff just like in Canada. I believe citizens get a prescription card up there. It's not something anyone without citizenship can get as far as I know. Illegal immigrants can't get most of what we have here already.
 
StoneByStone said:
Based on how many people are in America right now and how bad inequality is, it certainly seems like both free healthcare and UBI are possible. We could redistribute wealth in the form of social programs and still have a rich 1%. But allow the entire world to come here AND let them know they'll get free healthcare, I can't imagine we'd still be able to spread the wealth enough to cover everyone.
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No, because not only is there not enough now, but the stream of ppl would be endless, well till the money runs out anyway..
 
StoneByStone said:
If an illegal immigrant gets hurt and needs immediate medical assistance, they should get that. I don't think anyone should be left to die.
However, after that person's life is saved, they should be deported or jailed. If we don't deport these people, then we have open borders.
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The way it works: joe blow construction hires illegal joe to work for him, cheap & under the table=joe illegal don't pay no stinking taxes, SS, etc.. It's all bank..

One day joe illegal is injured, joe blow dumps him in front of the hospital & picks up another joe illegal on the way back to the job site..

We the ppl pay the $400,000 for his surgery, treatment & recovery, meds etc etc etc & joe blow goes about his business like nothing happened, cause nothing did happen to him..
 
JoeFromFargo said:
No, they shouldn't get amnesty, but they should be allowed to receive medical attention and leave without incident. Tying deportation to care will cause them to take unnecessary risks with their lives/the lives of their children. There are plenty of other ways to track them down and deport them, wouldn't you agree?
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Like what?? & what is your justification for doing so??
 
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