Question regarding Arizona shooting.

[Onceler]

Yes, I admitted it has gone up. It has. Both sides are increasing the vitriol. If you can't see that, I can't help you. yes, the focus tends to be on the party out of power.

So, let's see. It has gone up more than usual over the past couple of years - you stated that. And, the focus tends to be on the party out of power - you just stated that as well.

But it isn't the right that has ratcheted it up more; it's some sort of 50/50 split since Obama got elected.

Got it.

 

[Taichiliberal]

Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
Interesting, because NRA members and gun right advocates for years have been declaring that with open carry and CCW there would be less violent crime.

Well, I guess this incident pretty much puts a crimp in that argument.

Yeah, one incident definitely disproves the entire argument. That's reason enough to prevent anyone from carrying in public - or possibly even owning any guns at all. I'm certain if open carry were illegal in AZ, the perpetrator in this case would have obeyed the law.

Your lame sarcasm non-withstanding....the FACT is that you have here a PRIME EXAMPLE of your beliefs and mantras in action...and the RESULTS do NOT pan out as you and others have asserted. Bottom line: the law that would have limited this nut's ammo clip was allowed to expire...and the very liberal gun laws in AZ allowed a man with mental problems recognized by the military and an institute of learning to easily purchase a weapon. And since any AZ adult with the proper credentials can carry an open weapon (or a concealed one, under recent law), ACCORDING TO YOU someone should have stopped him with deadly force.

Didn't shake out that way, did it? But hey, let's just keep going in the same direction because eventually YOU will be proven right.....just hope YOU or YOURS are not one of the "better luck next time" victims.

 

[Taichiliberal]

Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
Interesting, because NRA members and gun right advocates for years have been declaring that with open carry and CCW there would be less violent crime.

Well, I guess this incident pretty much puts a crimp in that argument.

How the fuck does your limited cognitive ability arrive at the conclusion that this incident means that violent crime ISN'T lessening?

For the last few years, NRA cronies/dupes have been bullhorning that if everyone were strapped 24/7, then incidences like just what happened could either be prevented or severely lessened regarding injury/casualties....and crimes like that would be less in general.

Well, Pima is a prime example of the flaw in that logic. A documented nut job gets a gun with an extended clip courtesy of the liberal/lax gun laws of AZ, and perpetraits a heinous crime DESPITE the well strapped citizenry. He was eventually taken down by UNARMED citizens.

But hey, you go ahead and provide stats of Pima crime stats in the last decade or so....and then do the gunner shuffle about how those very gun laws are attributed to a lower crime rate but DID NOT do a damned thing to stop this nut from killing 9 people in an open public event (in fact, made it easy).

 

[Taichiliberal]

Arizona requires no license for CC.

But, the shooter could've easily illegally conceal carried, or even just gone out and gotten a license. Despite the fact that his behavior was so erratic that it caused him to get ejected from college (until he got a note from a mental health professional stating that he wasn't a danger to anyone), he was never institutionalized.

Ahhh, but the FACTS are that he did obtain his weapon legally...DESPITE being officially rejected by the Army due to mental instability.

A better background check system coupled with a 7 day waiting period would have prevented Loughner from getting his weapon so easily. But now we'll never know.

 

[Taichiliberal]

Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
Interesting, because NRA members and gun right advocates for years have been declaring that with open carry and CCW there would be less violent crime.

Well, I guess this incident pretty much puts a crimp in that argument.

Really? You think one shooting crimps the argument concerning a nation of 300 million people?

So how many people have to die under similar circumstances before you consider the NRA members argument crimped?

 

[Taichiliberal]

For all the apologists, can you tell us why this nut didn't shoot a florist?


"The main hypothesis concerning group-think is this: the more amiability and espirt de corps among the members of an in-group of policymakers the greater the danger that independent critical thinking will be replaced by groupthink, which is likely to result in irrational and the dehumanizing actions directed at out-groups." Irving L. Janis 'Sanctions for Evil'


"We first kill people with our minds, before we kill them with weapons. Whatever the conflict, the enemy is always the destroyer. We're on God's side; they're barbaric. We're good, they're evil. War gives us a feeling of moral clarity that we lack at other times." Sam Keen
http://fora.tv/2010/03/11/Sam_Keen_In_The_Absence_of_God

Okay, Loughner was a nut job with a BIG paranoia about the evil gov't controlling your mind and life for a LONG TIME. He decided to fixate on Gifford...and as Sheriff Dupnik pointed out, Arizona has been a focal point for all the nasty hyperbole by political pundits...the "coincidence" is frightening.

 

[Taichiliberal]

Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
What's the law in Pima regarding citizens carrying weapons openly (with permit) or CCWP?

And why is the neocon radio bullhorn's losing their minds over the Sheriff simply stating the obvious, since he didn't mention anyone person or political affiliate specifically?

Too bad someone carrying wasn't around, since they could have acted to stop the guy.

And you base this on what....wishful thinking?

The reality is you have an area that was the living embodiment of the NRA advocates/dupes mantra.....liberal gun purchase/ownership, open/concealed carry laws will lower and prevent violent crime.

But here with have an exercise in reality.....and a nut was easily and legally able to obtain a weapon with an ammo clip for extened firing...and was eventually stopped by UNARMED citizenry.

But hey, let's keep the policies just as they are....eventually it'll work out just like you wish and hope....because the people that will die in the interim mean NOTHING to you so long as your beliefs are justified, right bunky?

 

[Taichiliberal]

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/06/14/obama-if-they-bring-a-knife-to-the-fight-we-bring-a-gun/

Obama made the comment in the context of warning donors that the general election campaign against McCain could get ugly. “They’re going to try to scare people. They’re going to try to say that ‘that Obama is a scary guy,’” he said.

That was in 2008 campaign....the neocon GOP, however have not only CONTINUED all their 2008 nastiness against Obama, they've expanded and intensified it. If you REALLY want to do a point for point exchange, the World Net Daily collection of out of context Obama quotes over the last 4 years PALES in comparison to the number of GOP politicos and pundits and their list of slander, half-truths, hype and just plain nastiness. Hell, even McCain had to admit some of Palin's rhetoric was over the top at one point.

 

[Taichiliberal]

Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
Interesting, because NRA members and gun right advocates for years have been declaring that with open carry and CCW there would be less violent crime.

Well, I guess this incident pretty much puts a crimp in that argument.

"less" does not equal "none".... you simpleton

Once again, our Super "dumb" freak demonstrates his inability to comprehend what he reads.

I didn't allude to "no" violent crime.....I merely point out that Pima has the system that gunners swore would stop/prevent/lower such crimes as what happened to Gifford and the other victims.

Well, reality check.....IT DIDN'T. What it did result in was a nut job rejected by the Army who easily purchased a weapon with an extended magazine, who killed 9 people and was taken down BY UNARMED CIVILIANS.

But hey, maybe next time it'll happen just like you gunners keep saying it will.

 

[Taichiliberal]

http://www.salon.com/news/gabrielle...itics/war_room/2011/01/09/loughner_not_though

Quote:
But it should also be noted that what we have learned so far about Loughner defies ideological branding. Based on his MySpace page and series of YouTube videos he apparently made, Loughner is fixated on his area’s literacy rate, government "mind control methods," and ... something having to do with America’s currency.

Quote:
A high school classmate describes him as "left-wing." He also is apparently fond of "Mein Kampf" and Karl Marx and may be somehow connected to a fringe anti-immigration group. And he despised Giffords. Make what you will of all of that. My hunch is that Lougnher is just basically crazy, and that his political thinking isn’t particularly coherent or organized.

Just one classmates opinion.... but something those on the left might want to consider before going off on their 'he did it because of Palin/Tea party' bullshit.

According to the classmate.... this guy was a lunatic from the LEFT fringe... not the right.

Quote:
But when liberals use this moment to highlight every provocative statement Palin has made, it’s also not unreasonable if she says that her opponents are trying just a little too hard to make her the villain.

The ideologies of Marx and Hitler are diametrically opposed to each other, you Super Dumbass Freak! And the anti-gov't ravings that his nut has had over the years on his website postings is right up the alley of the Teabagger dogma we've all seen/heard since 2008. And who was the politico that wanted to reduce the federal gov't to a size he could strangle in the bath tub? Not a Dem or Liberal or Progressive, if I remember.

Some college kids opinion doesn't add-up with the evidence. Palin's placating statements and presence at Teabagger rallies were they were spewing all types of off-the-wall paranoid, anti-gov't BS is so reflective of Loughner's ravings that "coincidence" becomes scary.

 

[Taichiliberal]

Apparently, right wingers want to impose the Fairness Doctrine on left-wingers that post on this board. We're supposed to give equal time to those things that we dislike on the left and the right.

BOOM! There it is! Our resident neocon/birther/oather/teabagger clowns want to disown all the rhetoric they've been parroting since 2008 because it's so scarily similar to the rantings of a nut who acted out.

Remember when they were so defensive about the jackasses that came strapped to town hall meeings? Seems veiled threats are okay so long as no one acts on them.

 

[Taichiliberal]

Originally Posted by Ice Dancer
A Sheriff made a statement about this kind of thing happening because of all the vitriolic politics in his state (paraphrase mine)

Yeah, because he put it here I looked into it. The same department that had no less than 16 reports of this same man threatening to kill people. Yup. True.

Did you know that even in AZ had he been forced in for a psych eval he could not have purchased the gun legally? Yeah. Somebody wasn't doing their job, and that somebody may be trying to deflect from his own responsibility. Sarah never had direct knowledge of a lunatic threatening to kill people, the Sheriff did. The guy threatened bloggers, radio personalities, teachers and students at the community college, and nobody had him checked for a psych eval...

These people died, not because of "political rhetoric" but because nobody took responsibility for this guy's clear and direct threat to others.

Forced for a psych evaluation? Gee, what "gov't" rule could do that so as to NOT set off every right wingnut and teabagging clown screaming about "Constitutional Rights"? The school did it's job, the military did it's job...it was his parents responsibility to have him committed. They failed.

If the law that restricted the type of magazine he used wasn't allowed to sunset, the fatalities would have been less. Had the background check laws been enforced and improved, he wouldn't have been able to purchase the weapon.

Palin went to teabagger rallies where assholes were carrying placards with veiled threats against the "gov't takeover" of their lives...she smiled pretty and placated their rhetoric...and she wasn't exactly a vocal when those two dopes came strapped to townhall meetings.....or when that GOP politico stated he wanted to reduce the federal gov't to a size he could strangle in a bath tub. Palin's BS just reflected the base that keeps paying her bills. The "coincidence" to Loughner's rantings is scary.

 

[Taichiliberal]

If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun. – June 2008.

I want you to go out and talk to your neighbors… I want you to argue with them, get in their faces. – September 2008.

I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry. I’m angry. – March 2009.

If Latinos sit out the election instead of saying, “We’re gonna punish our enemies and we’re gonna reward our friends who stand with us on issues that are important to us,” if they don’t see that kind of upsurge in voting in this election, then I think it’s gonna be harder, and that’s why I think it’s so important that people focus on November 2. – October 2010.

Out of context quotes - 3 - as opposed to the 4 years of threatening rhetoric from teabagger rallies, and anti-obama campaign rhetoric that is STILL being used. You really have the balls to do a point for point comparison, bunky? Here's a starter:

http://www.politicalarticles.net/bl...set-for-dc-protest-hate-is-not-entertainment/

 

[NOVA]

What's the law in Pima regarding citizens carrying weapons openly (with permit) or CCWP?

And why is the neocon radio bullhorn's losing their minds over the Sheriff simply stating the obvious, since he didn't mention anyone person or political affiliate specifically?

When the sheriff states that "one party is trying to make it better for the people and the other party is blocking them all the time" (paraphrasing)
it leaves little doubt what and who he is blaming....

Maybe you need things spelled out for you, but the rest of us know what he is implying...

 

[Canceled2]

When the sheriff states that "one party is trying to make it better for the people and the other party is blocking them all the time" (paraphrasing)
it leaves little doubt what and who he is blaming....

Maybe you need things spelled out for you, but the rest of us know what he is implying...

It was an irresponsible statement that he made-especially in light of the aftermath fallout!

 

[Bonestorm]

It was an irresponsible statement that he made-especially in light of the aftermath fallout!

So "Dont retreat. Instead -- RELOAD" is kosher but pointing out the hostile atmosphere in which it was stated is irresponsible because the very people that created that environment have now given him a taste of it?

Nice.

 

[PostmodernProphet]

holy balls, Touchie, was that really eleven posts in a row?....must be a new record.....(by the way, I didn't read any of them and I feel great)......

 

[Damocles]

Did you really just dig up some British movie that nobody has ever heard of? Christ, where'd you stumble across this gem?

Seriously? We talked about that movie on this site. It wasn't some "unheard" of flick that nobody saw, dude.

 

[Damocles]

So "Dont retreat. Instead -- RELOAD" is kosher but pointing out the hostile atmosphere in which it was stated is irresponsible because the very people that created that environment have now given him a taste of it?

Nice.

It's as kosher as calling the other party "enemies" while telling a national television audience to bring guns to the fight because "they" (you know the enemy) only have knives.

They are metaphors, plain and simple.

 

[Canceled2]

It's as kosher as calling the other party "enemies" while telling a national television audience to bring guns to the fight because "they" (you know the enemy) only have knives.

They are metaphors, plain and simple.

No no no Damo, you are missing the whole screed here. It's only metaphores when they, the metaphores and imagery, are engaged by the left~ When used by the right they are no longer metaphores and gimmick ridden imagery-It's ugly and hateful and violent! It's menacing and causes demented dudes to kill people!