Reality check on electric cars

... and the phenomenon of how proud EV owners are about not maintaining their EVs.

Do these twits think that these are "magick EVs" (similar to "magick satellites")?
I suppose there's a certain amount of truth to that. They think of EVs as 'new technology' and 'the future', completely ignoring it's history and technology (just like they ignore the history of satellites and their technology).

In both cases, it's Gadget Happiness. What is sometimes referred to as the Novelty fallacy (which assumes something is 'better' because it's new).

The Church of Global Warming (and the Church of the EV with it), assume all kinds of wacky capabilities that satellites supposedly have.

Of course, with satellites, they have NASA attached to them, and to them, NASA is an infallible government agency, ranking right up there with The Holy Word.

EVs only have Elon Musk attached to them, and they currently don't like the guy. They DO, however have the EPA attached to them, a government agency almost as Holy as NASA itself.
 
So to sum up so far in the EV thread:

People that support EVs tend to tout their simplicity of design, and that they are somehow 'saving the planet' by driving one. They tend to ignore the government subsidies of these things and the government mandates requiring people to install charging stations at their own expense.

These so-called 'Green' laws are the biggest thing wrong with the whole EV movement.

They also tend to ignore the various disadvantages of owning an EV, as opposed to a gasoline or diesel vehicle, especially the weight problems and cost problems associated with it.

The Church of the EV stems from the Church of Global Warming, and like the Church of Global Warming, blames a Magick Holy Gas that somehow creates energy out of nothing, ignoring the 1st law of thermodynamics.
Not talked about enough is how badly America and Europe lost to the Chinese in building this new industry.

And how bad they are for the planet.
 
Not talked about enough is how badly America and Europe lost to the Chinese in building this new industry.

And how bad they are for the planet.
It's not a new industry. EVs are older than gasoline cars.

"Bad for the planet"? No. Earth is quite big enough to take care of itself.

Sure, lithium mining does have it's problems:

Rock lithium is mined using open pit mines. Not much different than any other open pit mine. Pretty benign.
Sediment lithium is found typically in desert terrain, and requires tremendous amounts of water and sulfuric acid to process to usable ore. Water is in short supply in the desert and the sulfuric acid left over does cause problems for the wildlife that lives there.
 
It's not a new industry. EVs are older than gasoline cars.

"Bad for the planet"? No. Earth is quite big enough to take care of itself.

Sure, lithium mining does have it's problems:

Rock lithium is mined using open pit mines. Not much different than any other open pit mine. Pretty benign.
Sediment lithium is found typically in desert terrain, and requires tremendous amounts of water and sulfuric acid to process to usable ore. Water is in short supply in the desert and the sulfuric acid left over does cause problems for the wildlife that lives there.
They were played with and failed long long ago....except for things like golf carts there was essentially no EV production for about 100 years.

Lithium is only one of the things that must be mined, and the raping of the planet is only one of the problems with EV vis a vis the planet.
 
They were played with and failed long long ago....except for things like golf carts there was essentially no EV production for about 100 years.
Most golf courses have gotten rid of EV golf carts too. They are too much of hassle to keep charged all the time for the next round of golfers.
Lithium is only one of the things that must be mined, and the raping of the planet is only one of the problems with EV vis a vis the planet.
A mine is not 'raping the planet'.
 
They were played with and failed long long ago....except for things like golf carts there was essentially no EV production for about 100 years.

Lithium is only one of the things that must be mined, and the raping of the planet is only one of the problems with EV vis a vis the planet.
Raping the earth is what we are good at. Car batteries are a small part of the Li we need. Batteries, laptops, cameras, heart pacemakers, toys , clocks, and other things like industrial uses. You anti EVers know not what you say.
 
Raping the earth is what we are good at. Car batteries are a small part of the Li we need. Batteries, laptops, cameras, heart pacemakers, toys , clocks, and other things like industrial uses. You anti EVers know not what you say.
You can't rape the Earth no matter how hard you try to fuck it, Sybil.

Almost all the lithium mined today goes to making batteries for EVs. A small amount is used to product batteries for computers, phones, game consoles, etc.

Lithium is mined in one of two ways:
1) Open pit mining, in which lithium is obtained from rock and crushed into ore. Open pit mining is common for many materials, including buaxite for aluminum, coal, iron, copper, etc.
2) Leach mining. Lithium typically is left over from shallow seas that have evaporated away producing desert areas. This type of mining requires large amounts of water (hard to obtain in the desert) and the use of large amounts of sulfuric acid (left as a waste product after processing). This type of mining takes several years for the leach process to produce usable ore.

This ore must then be shipped across the Pacific ocean in large ships to be processed into batteries in China. The batteries are then shipped to car manufacturers (another trip across the Pacific ocean).

Leach mining presents the most problems, since it requires large amounts of a scarce resource in the area and leaves behind sulfuric acid and their salts as waste material, and takes years to produce usable ore.

Cobalt is another problem, also required to manufacture these batteries.

While cobalt (usually in the form of cobalite (cobalt-arsenic sulfide) can be found in several places, the only supply large enough to supply the needs of the car batteries is a mine in the Congo, which uses child slavery for the mining. The ore is crushed and processed to obtain the cobalt needed (leaving behind water contaminated with arsenic and sulfur as a waste product).

Various rare earths are also used, but are of course also expensive.

The EV is a VERY expensive car. Governments (including the US government) provide heavy subsidies just to bring the price of an EV down to about three times the cost of a gasoline car. It's poor range (about 250-300 mi in ideal conditions), it's weight, and of course the inconvenience of requiring hours to charge the thing, has caused the EV market to collapse, despite the subsidies.
 
REALITY CHECK: At a neighborhood BBQ I was talking to a neighbor, a BC Hydro Executive. I asked him how that renewable thing was doing. He laughed, then got serious "If you really intend to adopt electric vehicles, you have to face certain realities."

"For example, a home charging system for a Tesla requires 75 amp service. The average house is equipped with 100 amp service. On our small street (approximately 25 homes), the electrical infrastructure would be unable to carry more than three houses with a single Tesla each. For even half the homes to have electric vehicles, the system would be wildly over-loaded. This is the elephant in the room with electric vehicles. Our residential infrastructure cannot bear the load."

So, as our genius elected officials promote this nonsense, not only are we being urged to buy these things and replace our reliable, cheap generating systems with expensive new windmills and solar cells, but we will also have to renovate our entire delivery system! This later "investment" will not be revealed until we're so far down this deadend road that it will be presented with an 'OOPS...!' and a shrug.

Eric test drove the Chevy Volt at the invitation of General Motors and he writes, "For four days in a row, the fully charged battery lasted only 25 miles before the Volt switched to the reserve gasoline engine." Eric calculated the car got 30 mpg including the 25 miles it ran on the battery. So, the range including the 9-gallon gas tank and the 16 kwh battery is approximately 270 miles.

It will take you 4.5 hours to drive 270 miles at 60 mph. Then add 10 hours to charge the battery and you have a total trip time of 14.5 hours. In a typical road trip, your average speed (including charging time) would be 20 mph.

According to General Motors, the Volt battery holds 16 kwh of electricity. It takes a full 10 hours to charge a drained battery. The cost for the electricity to charge the Volt is never mentioned, so I looked up what I pay for electricity.

I pay approximately (it varies with amount used and the seasons) $1.16 per kwh. 16 kwh x $1.16 per kwh = $18.56 to charge the battery. $18.56 per charge divided by 25 miles = $0.74 per mile to operate the Volt using the battery. Compare this to a similar size car with a gasoline engine that gets only 32 mpg. $3.19 per gallon divided by 32 Mpg = $0.10 per mile.

The gasoline powered car costs about $25,000 while the Volt costs $46,000 plus. So, the Government wants us to pay twice as much for a car, that costs more than seven times as much to run and takes three times longer to drive across the country.

WAKE UP NORTH AMERICA!!!!!!!
If you don't like electric cars I suggest you don't fucking buy one.
 
The un-Democratic party wants to force you to buy one, or at least give you no other choice if you buy a car.
You lie again. ICEs will be available for many generations. We are trying to stop them from being sold new. But buying and selling them will go on through your entirely atavistic life.
At some point, they will not be available NEW. The manufacturers are changing over.
 
You lie again. ICEs will be available for many generations. We are trying to stop them from being sold new. But buying and selling them will go on through your entirely atavistic life.
At some point, they will not be available NEW. The manufacturers are changing over.
Not in California. They have set a date of 2035 for ending all ICE sales in the state, as have more than a dozen other states (all blue). At that point, if they don't change course, owning and using an ICE vehicle will become increasingly difficult in that state. The likely, almost certain, fail that will follow will be very costly. EV's simply don't work in the US, and there is proof of that stretching back over 150 years now.
 
Bullshit.
What do you call this?




Well? Don't tell me you can still buy some older, used ICE vehicle as a canard to that either.
 
What do you call this?




Well? Don't tell me you can still buy some older, used ICE vehicle as a canard to that either.
I did not see democrats were doing that.
 
I did not see democrats were doing that.
Which party runs these states?

So far, eight states and Washington, D.C., have adopted ACCII for light passenger vehicles. The states are Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, Washington, and, most recently, Virginia. Connecticut and Maine are also considering the measures but haven't adopted them formally, while Colorado, New Mexico, Delaware and Minnesota have partially adopted a large portion of the standards.

(From one of the links I posted earlier.)
 
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