Reality check on electric cars

[Stringfellow Hawk]

No, I'll likely still be driving the vehicles I currently own and they aren't EV's.

me too, much less expensive and less maintenance

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

You miss the point. If CO2 is irrelevant as a pollutant, then the whole point of an EV is irrelevant as a "Green" thing. If you count all pollutants, EV's don't do much better, if any, over ICE vehicles. Regardless, if you aren't a true believer in the Church of Gorebal Warming then the EV is simply a choice based on what you want to drive and not something that's political virtue signaling.

And you miss the point about how you are simply claiming the world is flat. Whether you believe in something or not doesn't change the science.
The warming effect of CO2 has been known to exist since Tyndall did his first experiments in 1861.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

me too, much less expensive and less maintenance

Not to mention far more user friendly as to where you can park one. If for example, you live in an apartment complex, you probably can't charge your EV there at all. The apartment complex owner(s) likely won't go for the added expense of putting in charging stations. You can't put one in as you are not the owner. You can't charge your vehicle if you have to park at some distance from your apartment since there's no way to run a charging line out to your vehicle.

If you live in some rural area with unpaved roads and such, an EV is likely to be a risk driving it on those roads due to the battery pack normally being exposed on the bottom of the vehicle.

Even a person who doesn't garage their vehicle might face problems charging their EV as it sits in the driveway.

Since with vehicles like a Tesla, you have to put the car on charge whenever possible as you can't let it sit as it will still slowly drain the battery and if that goes to zero then your car is bricked and now unchargable and undrivable.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

And you miss the point about how you are simply claiming the world is flat. Whether you believe in something or not doesn't change the science.
The warming effect of CO2 has been known to exist since Tyndall did his first experiments in 1861.

Correlation does not equal causation. There are plenty of alternative reasons the climate of the planet is changing other than CO2. It's idiots that willfully ignore these in favor of the popular CO2 explanation that are the flat earther types. This is just as true of the hole in the ozone layer fools who said it was all due to CFC's which has now been proven false. Fixating on one variable in a complex system is a fool's errand.

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

Correlation does not equal causation. There are plenty of alternative reasons the climate of the planet is changing other than CO2. It's idiots that willfully ignore these in favor of the popular CO2 explanation that are the flat earther types. This is just as true of the hole in the ozone layer fools who said it was all due to CFC's which has now been proven false. Fixating on one variable in a complex system is a fool's errand.

It seems you aren't familiar with Tyndall or the experiments that proved that a gas mixture with more CO2 retains more heat. It is an experiment that has been repeated in a lot of HS science classes and all have the same result. Increasing the CO2 increases the temperature. No one is claiming that CO2 is the only cause for climate change. The IPCC lists multiple causes for increases in temperature and decreases in temperature which is all based on the science conducted by thousands of scientists. CO2 is one of the major drivers but is not the only one.

Who said that the hole was all due to the CFCs? There has always been a hole. CFCs were making it bigger. Your desire to deny the actual science seems to make you think you can make up whatever straw men you want in order to defeat them.

Refusing to actually look at the science is the fool's errand and you seem to want to be an errand boy extraordinaire.

 

[Into the Night]

Interesting point!

Except of course that you are forgetting the energy required to CHARGE that battery over that ten years, and the higher cost of maintenance.

 

[Into the Night]

So? That means nothing. Without a fixed point of reference, this statement is meaningless. Here's why. If the energy and pollution necessary to deliver oil is negligible, then the difference is a meaningless exercise in hair splitting.

Actually, this is called a special pleading fallacy. They ignore the other costs to focus improperly on SOME of the costs, making them out to be the only costs.

 

[Into the Night]

And, what if you think that the whole CO2 thing is a pile of bullshit purveyed by the same crackpots that told us the world would end if we didn't do something about the hole in the ozone layer, or that 50 some years ago the world was headed to a new ice age?

They are STILL people predicting impending Doom from the Coming Ice Age. The Church of the Solar Minimum is as widely spread, but it too is a fundamentalist style religion that makes a lot of shit up.
The Church of the Ozone Hole still exists too. Fewer believers, of course, but they are just as adamant.
The Church of Global Warming usually takes a quiet time this time of year, only to resurface again on Earth Day, and shove their nonsense all summer long. It usually goes quiet again until the winter storms start kicking up, then they blame that weather on 'Global Warming' or 'Climate Change' or whatever favorite phrase they are using now.

Now we have the Church of Green in this thread describe how we're all gonna die unless everyone buys electric cars.

All of these religions stem from the Church of Karl Marx. All of them push fascistic and communistic solutions to 'The Problem'.

Never mind existing theories of science that are ignored, the mathematics that is ignored, or the Constitution that is ignored.

 

[Into the Night]

Speaking of the Japs, they make some extremely accurate and repetitive machine tools. Their CNC's hold tenths all day long, the only adjustments needing made are for tool wear.

It's good stuff. Japan finally learned the answer to world peace...


Profit.

 

[Into the Night]

And what if you think that the world is flat?

Cliche fallacy.

Your deflection to denying that CO2 is a problem

It isn't. You seem to think it is for some reason.

doesn't change the fact that the graphic clearly shows that EV's produce less over their lifetime when all processes are included from vehicle manufacture to powering it for a period of 10 years.

Irrelevant. Also, it is not possible to measure the CO2 produced by any nation or industry. It is also not possible to measure the global atmospheric concentration of CO2. No, Mauna Loa can't do it.

 

[Into the Night]

You miss the point.

He got the point. He is trying a pivot fallacy.

If CO2 is irrelevant as a pollutant,

It isn't a pollutant at all. CO2 is a naturally occurring gas that is absolutely essential for life on Earth to exist.

then the whole point of an EV is irrelevant as a "Green" thing.

Bingo.

If you count all pollutants, EV's don't do much better, if any, over ICE vehicles.

You first have to define what 'pollutant' is. This meaningless buzzword is easily tossed around by the Church of Green and the Church of Global Warming.

Regardless, if you aren't a true believer in the Church of Gorebal Warming then the EV is simply a choice based on what you want to drive and not something that's political virtue signaling.

That also involves the Church of Green, since they believe oil is a non-renewable resource and we are going run out any second. They do not understand the concept of market forces.

 

[Into the Night]

Note the source. Also note Brandon just shut down the starting up of a huge nickle and copper mine in MN.

Electric Car Batteries Are Going to Need a Lot of Nickel

Yup. Nickel is also used to manufacture Li-ion batteries.

 

[Nordberg]

It's good stuff. Japan finally learned the answer to world peace...


Profit.

The real reason that Germany and Japan are so accurate in their matching is that after WW2, we rebuilt their industry with new and modern machinery. In America, we worked with machined held together with tape and bailing wire. They both recognized the value of accuracy and have kept working on it ever since. We of course lagged due to wanting instant profits.

 

[Nordberg]

The cost of an electric vehicle is also enhanced by the government giving a 7500 dollar tax rebate for going electric, Some states do it too. That ends up with a 10 K lower price. https://cleanvehiclerebate.org/en/ev/incentives/state-and-federal

 

[Into the Night]

Reds using incidents and thinking that proves the case.

It does, actually.

I have had an electric since 2015. I have never run short on electricity.
Therefore what you said is wrong.

Special pleading fallacy.

The fact is people have range anxiety and are careful to keep it topped off.

You don't get to speak for everyone. You only get to speak for you. Omniscience fallacy. Learn what 'fact' means.

If somebody ,somewhere fucks up, that is not an argument against it.

Leaping to conclusion. How do you they 'fucked up'?

 

[Nordberg]

It does, actually.

Special pleading fallacy.

You don't get to speak for everyone. You only get to speak for you. Omniscience fallacy. Learn what 'fact' means.

Leaping to conclusion. How do you they 'fucked up'?

That was one of the worst posts I have ever read. It was really stupid.

 

[Into the Night]

You will all be driving EVs in 5 years. The technology moves on, even though you don't. The automakers are eliminating ICEs.

Better get out on the road and see what people are driving, dude. Ain't gonna happen.

 

[Into the Night]

Yea, well Joke and his clown car administration is fighting to keep the largest copper mine in the US, the Resolution in Superior Arizona, from opening fully because a few radical Leftist Native Americans say they gather acorns or some nonsense nearby. This is the typical radical Leftist ploy when legal means fail, environmental pleading fails, and people won't listen to their nonsense--at least in Arizona. They trot out a handful of radical nutjob Native Americans who suddenly claim out of thin air that the location is "sacred" and can't be used for whatever. The tribal leadership shuts up and stays out of it the second they are paid off.

That's one of about a dozen "sacred" billboards the Gila tribe put up after the loop 202 south in Phoenix was finished. When the route--which runs along the border of the Gila River reservation--was being started, the Gila tribe fought against it on claims the land was "sacred." They were ignored and the road went in. Right after it completed, the tribe stuck up at least a dozen billboards--far more than would be allowed anywhere else in the state other than a res--and began collecting rent on them.

Anyway, the Joke administration is siding with the Apache over the Resolution mine for now because they don't want copper mined there...

It's not even indian land. Why the fuck are these lame-o's trying to claim it??

 

[Into the Night]

300 miles is not even a 1/2 days driving for me, so no, you are full of shit

Agreed. His 'long trip' would not even get one out of State, if he were traveling east from Seattle. He would barely make Spokane.

 

[Into the Night]

And you miss the point about how you are simply claiming the world is flat.

Cliche fallacy.

Whether you believe in something or not doesn't change the science.

You deny science.

The warming effect of CO2 has been known to exist since Tyndall did his first experiments in 1861.

Poor Tyndall. You mock his work and his contributions to science. No, dude. the 1st law of thermodynamics prevails. You cannot create energy out of nothing. No gas or vapor has the capability to warm the Earth.