Reality check on electric cars

[Into the Night]

My 2006 Prius is running fine with no battery replacement. The battery is not as good as when it was new, but works very well considering it is 16 years old.

Replacing a battery on a Prius is a lot simpler than replacing one on a Tesla.

 

[Into the Night]

Anecdotal evidence is by definition evidence.

No, it isn't.

Every last murder case is proven with anecdotal evidence.

No, they aren't.

You made an absolute statement that the most one can get out of a battery is 8 years. I have gotten 16 years (and counting), so it is safe to say that 8 years is not the most.

You are driving a hybrid, not an EV. You are simply using more gas.

What percent of the time can someone get more than 8 years, we do not know. I would guess about 100%, if one is willing to deal with shorter battery lives.

Not tolerable in an EV. It is tolerable in a hybrid.

 

[Into the Night]

I wasn't meaning it as an absolute, but as an average. A rule of thumb so-to-speak. The most you can hope for is somewhere between 16 and 20 years / 100,000 to 200,000 miles. But it most likely will be less.

He has already admitted his battery is losing it's ability to charge, and he's driving a hybrid, not an EV. A battery in that condition on an EV necessitates replacement. In a hybrid, he's just using more gas. Eventually, even a hybrid will fail to start because the battery gets so bad it can't charge at all.
It's also a lot easier to replace a hybrid battery pack than an EV battery pack.

 

[Into the Night]

The average is not 8 years. Geez.. most manufacturers have a 10 year warranty. If we accept your argument then they are replacing more than 50% of batteries within 8 years. We would be seeing that in the data.

Tesla warranty until very recently was 4 years or 100,000 miles.
Tesla warranty is currently 8 years or 150,000 miles. Yes...it covers the battery to retain 70% of it's new condition.
You are seeing it in the data. You are seeing vehicle fires caused by charging problems too. Problems that could take out your house along with your garage.

 

[Walt]

I wasn't meaning it as an absolute, but as an average. A rule of thumb so-to-speak. The most you can hope for is somewhere between 16 and 20 years / 100,000 to 200,000 miles. But it most likely will be less.

You do not seem to understand how batteries work. They lose capacity with time and usage. You can get 50 years out of any battery, but at the end it will hold nearly no charge.

 

[Walt]

Replacing a battery on a Prius is a lot simpler than replacing one on a Tesla.

It is a bigger battery i the Tesla, but it is the same type of battery, with the same lifetime.

 

[Walt]

Fossils don't burn. We don't use them for fuel.

We have explained this to you so many times, it is clear you do not want to understand.

Fossil is from the Latin fossilis, and means something that is dug out of the ground. Fossil fuels would be fuels that are dug out of the ground, but in modern usage is usually limited to hydrocarbons (not uranium nor geothermal). Fossils are any traces of life from previous ages that are in the ground. The most commonly thought of is rock deposits that replaces bones, but actually coal counts as a fossil.

 

[Walt]

Not tolerable in an EV. It is tolerable in a hybrid.

Technically, a hybrid is an EV... AND an ICE. It is a hybrid between the two.

Range anxiety is a real think in a pure EV, so there are some limits on the tolerance of battery capacity, but different people would have different tolerances.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

You do not seem to understand how batteries work. They lose capacity with time and usage. You can get 50 years out of any battery, but at the end it will hold nearly no charge.

Actually, I'm what you call an "expert" on batteries. Yes, the US Navy trained me on that. There are all sorts of reasons on can fail, and given that the ones in all EV vehicles today are of the lithium ion sort, and used in mass quantities--usually in the thousands--means that the failure of just one cell drags down the whole battery pack. Two or three cells failing out of thousands means a new pack.

That, for example, Tesla's battery packs for their cars are engineered by idiots gives me ZERO confidence in their longevity.

How you charge is as important as how you drive the vehicle.

 

[Walt]

Two or three cells failing out of thousands means a new pack.

Maybe 20 years ago.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Maybe 20 years ago.

That video was made by one of the US's leading experts on EV cars and repairing them OEM, last month.

 

[Hawkeye10]

When I look at what we get told about electric cars and the timetable for outlawing gas cars as I look at the realistic outlook I remember this:

"They are not grooming us to go green, they are grooming us to go without."
Neil Oliver

 

[Into the Night]

You do not seem to understand how batteries work. They lose capacity with time and usage. You can get 50 years out of any battery, but at the end it will hold nearly no charge.

No battery lasts 50 years, dude.

 

[Into the Night]

It is a bigger battery i the Tesla, but it is the same type of battery, with the same lifetime.

It is a much smaller battery then a Tesla, dumbass.

 

[Into the Night]

We have explained this to you so many times, it is clear you do not want to understand.

LIF.

Fossil is from the Latin fossilis, and means something that is dug out of the ground.

So according to you, sand is a fossil. So is granite, uranium, diamonds, gold, silver, iron, copper, etc.

No, a fossil is an image of a plant or animal in stone.

Fossil fuels would be fuels that are dug out of the ground,

We don't dig for oil or natural gas. We can drill for oil and natural gas, but you can also get natural gas from swamps, compost piles, and landfills. Fossils are not a liquid nor a gas.

but in modern usage is usually limited to hydrocarbons (not uranium nor geothermal).

Okay. You just locked yourself in paradox. You are being irrational.

Fossils are any traces of life from previous ages that are in the ground.

Oil is not alive and never was. Natural gas is not alive and never was.

The most commonly thought of is rock deposits that replaces bones, but actually coal counts as a fossil.

Carbon is not a fossil, though it may contain fossils.

 

[Into the Night]

Technically, a hybrid is an EV... AND an ICE. It is a hybrid between the two.

No a hybrid is a hydrid. It is not an EV. It is an ICE with a buffering system.

Range anxiety is a real think in a pure EV, so there are some limits on the tolerance of battery capacity, but different people would have different tolerances.

An EV depends entirely on it's battery as it's source of power. There is no internal combustion engine. Today, these batteries will last about eight years.
That's better than before where they lasted only about four years.

All lithium-oxide batteries are subject to battery fires if charged at excessive rates or discharged at excessive rates. These are the lightest rechargeable battery made, due to the use of lithium as it's base metal. They have a low internal resistance, making them ideal for powering EVs or buffering power for hybrids.

 

[Into the Night]

Actually, I'm what you call an "expert" on batteries. Yes, the US Navy trained me on that. There are all sorts of reasons on can fail, and given that the ones in all EV vehicles today are of the lithium ion sort, and used in mass quantities--usually in the thousands--means that the failure of just one cell drags down the whole battery pack. Two or three cells failing out of thousands means a new pack.

That, for example, Tesla's battery packs for their cars are engineered by idiots gives me ZERO confidence in their longevity.

How you charge is as important as how you drive the vehicle.

This is exactly right. All it takes is for one cell in a series to fail cause the whole series circuit to fail. These batteries are wired in a set of multiple series circuits in parallel. As each parallel branch goes, capacity is reduced. Typically, when a battery pack fails, it's due to just a few batteries that have actually failed.

A new battery pack for a Tesla costs $25,000 for the part, plus labor to exchange it.

Unlike lead-acid batteries, lithium-oxide (lithium ion) batteries are not practically recyclable.

 

[Into the Night]

Maybe 20 years ago.

Nope. Today.

 

[Walt]

When I look at what we get told about electric cars and the timetable for outlawing gas cars as I look at the realistic outlook I remember this:

"They are not grooming us to go green, they are grooming us to go without."
Neil Oliver

I have to say that a heat pump, with great insulation makes for the most comfortable house I have ever lived in. I pay comparatively little for the heating and cooling, due to solar panels. I really cannot go back to the old oil heat.

It did cost a lot upfront, but I had the money, so why not?

 

[Into the Night]

I have to say that a heat pump, with great insulation makes for the most comfortable house I have ever lived in. I pay comparatively little for the heating and cooling, due to solar panels. I really cannot go back to the old oil heat.

It did cost a lot upfront, but I had the money, so why not?

They can be nice. Heat pumps don't use solar panels.

If you want to spend all that money to install solar panels to power your heat pump and auxillary HVAC, that's your choice. Don't ask me or anyone else to pay for them though.