Republican Platform Chokes on Ukraine

[Scott]

Biden knew Russia was going to invade

I actually think that's quite likely, though only a few days before Russia's military intervention. Former Swiss Intelligence Officer Jacques Baud gets into details:
**
On February 17, President Joe Biden announces that Russia will attack Ukraine in the coming days. How does he know? Mystery… But since the 16th, the artillery shelling of the populations of Donbass has increased dramatically, as shown by the daily reports of OSCE observers. Naturally, neither the media, nor the European Union, nor NATO, nor any Western government reacts and intervenes. We will say later that this is Russian disinformation. In fact, it seems that the European Union and some countries purposely glossed over the massacre of the people of Donbass, knowing that it would provoke Russian intervention.

At the same time, there are reports of acts of sabotage in the Donbass. On January 18, Donbass fighters intercept saboteurs equipped with Western equipment and speaking Polish seeking to create chemical incidents in Gorlivka . They could be CIA mercenaries , led or “advised” by Americans and made up of Ukrainian or European fighters, to carry out sabotage actions in the Donbass Republics.

In fact, as early as February 16, Joe Biden knows that the Ukrainians began to shell the civilian populations of Donbass, putting Vladimir Putin in front of a difficult choice: to help Donbass militarily and create an international problem or to sit idle and watch Russian speakers. from the Donbass being run over.

If he decides to intervene, Vladimir Putin can invoke the international obligation of “ Responsibility To Protect ” (R2P). But he knows that whatever its nature or scale, the intervention will trigger a shower of sanctions. Therefore, whether its intervention is limited to the Donbass or whether it goes further to put pressure on the West for the status of Ukraine, the price to be paid will be the same. This is what he explains in his speech on February 21.

That day, he acceded to the request of the Duma and recognized the independence of the two Republics of Donbass and, in the process, he signed treaties of friendship and assistance with them.

The Ukrainian artillery bombardments on the populations of Donbass continued and, on February 23, the two Republics requested military aid from Russia. On the 24th, Vladimir Putin invokes Article 51 of the United Nations Charter which provides for mutual military assistance within the framework of a defensive alliance.

In order to make the Russian intervention totally illegal in the eyes of the public we deliberately obscure the fact that the war actually started on February 16th. The Ukrainian army was preparing to attack the Donbass as early as 2021, as certain Russian and European intelligence services were well aware… The lawyers will judge.
**

Full article:

Former NATO Military Analyst Blows the Whistle on West’s Ukraine Invasion Narrative

Jacques Baud, a NATO expert, denounces western coverage of the Ukraine invasion.

scheerpost.com

 

[Scott]

Biden knew Russia was going to invade and did nothing to stop it ... like declaring a no fly zone.

Western officials were clear as to why they didn't do that:
**

Why are so many Western officials so adamant?​

A no-fly zone, many Western officials say, would draw the U.S. and its NATO allies into direct combat with Russia, as fighter pilots from the two sides in theory would try to shoot each other down — an escalation that many liken to a world war, one involving two major nuclear powers.

“The only way to implement a no-fly zone is to send NATO fighter planes into Ukrainian airspace, and then impose that no-fly zone by shooting down Russian planes,” Stoltenberg said. “We understand the desperation, but we also believe that if we did that, we would end up with something that could end in a full-fledged war in Europe.”
**

Source:

Ukraine wants a no-fly zone. Why do the U.S. and NATO reject the idea?

A no-fly zone to protect Ukraine from Putin's bombs would involve complex ground operations and risk U.S.-Russian conflict and wider war in Europe.

www.latimes.com

 

[Bigdog]

Do you have a link to the article article, or just the headline?

Putin orders increase of Crimean pensions to Russian levels - Mar. 19, 2014

Novo-Ogaryovo - Russian President Vladimir Putin has ordered the relevant ministries to bring the pensions paid… - Mar. 19, 2014. By Interfax-Ukraine

archive.kyivpost.com

 

[Bigdog]

I actually think that's quite likely, though only a few days before Russia's military intervention. Former Swiss Intelligence Officer Jacques Baud gets into details:
**

It's NOT "likely". It's 100% accurate.

Biden publicly announced it a week ahead of time. I'm sorry, Scott, you really seem to be out of the loop. And don't know the definitions of simple words like "stealth" or "puppet".

 

[Bigdog]

Western officials were clear as to why they didn't do that:
**

Why are so many Western officials so adamant?​

A no-fly zone, many Western officials say, would draw the U.S. and its NATO allies into direct combat with Russia, as fighter pilots from the two sides in theory would try to shoot each other down — an escalation that many liken to a world war, one involving two major nuclear powers.

“The only way to implement a no-fly zone is to send NATO fighter planes into Ukrainian airspace, and then impose that no-fly zone by shooting down Russian planes,” Stoltenberg said. “We understand the desperation, but we also believe that if we did that, we would end up with something that could end in a full-fledged war in Europe.”
**

Source:

Ukraine wants a no-fly zone. Why do the U.S. and NATO reject the idea?

A no-fly zone to protect Ukraine from Putin's bombs would involve complex ground operations and risk U.S.-Russian conflict and wider war in Europe.

www.latimes.com

Bullshit. They don't want to give Ukraine enough to win. Biden has already brought us to the brink of ww3.

Europe is still Not on a war footing, except for poor little Poland.

Turmp threatened to nuke Putin. That worked!

 

[Scott]

Biden knew Russia was going to invade [snip]

I actually think that's quite likely, though only a few days before Russia's military intervention.

It's NOT "likely". It's 100% accurate.

Biden publicly announced it a week ahead of time.

From what I've read, that's not completely accurate. The title of this CNN article makes it clear that Biden was only saying that Russia was giving "every indication" that it would soon start a military intervention:

Biden: ‘Every indication’ is that Russia will attack Ukraine ‘within the next several days’ | CNN​

In the quotes that you snipped out in your response to my post, Former Swiss Intelligence Officer Jacques Baud stated that he wasn't sure why Biden felt this way, but he points out that Ukraine had been on the verge of starting a renewed military assault since February 15th at the latest, and Russia's Parliament had urged him to recognize the Donbass Republics at that point, probably to try to deter Ukraine from starting said assault. Putin declined to recognize said republics at that point, but the next day, Ukraine actually started its military assault and continued it until on February 21st, Putin decided to recognize said republics and his intention to protect them. I strongly suspect that this was Putin's final warning that Ukraine and its western allies had gone too far. Had Ukraine backed off at that point, I think that Putin wouldn't have started his military intervention on February 24th. For a long time now, I was aware that Putin made a speech on February 21st whose punchline was the recognition of the Donbass Republics as well as a "Treaty of Friendship and Mutual Assistance with both republics", but I didn't actually skim through it. I finally decided to change that today.

Here are the final words of his February 21, 2024 speech:
**
We want those who seized and continue to hold power in Kiev to immediately stop hostilities. Otherwise, the responsibility for the possible continuation of the bloodshed will lie entirely on the conscience of Ukraine’s ruling regime.

As I announce the decisions taken today, I remain confident in the support of Russia’s citizens and the country’s patriotic forces.
**

Source:

Address by the President of the Russian Federation

en.kremlin.ru

Unfortunately, Ukraine continued its military assault on the Donbass Republics and thus, 3 days later, Putin started his military operation in Ukraine.

 

[Bigdog]

From what I've read, that's not completely accurate. The title of this CNN article makes it clear that Biden was only saying that Russia was giving "every indication" that it would soon start a military intervention:

Biden: ‘Every indication’ is that Russia will attack Ukraine ‘within the next several days’ | CNN​

In the article that you snipped out in your response to my post, Former Swiss Intelligence Officer Jacques Baud stated that he wasn't sure why Biden felt this way, but he points out that Ukraine had been on the verge of starting a renewed military assault since February 15th at the latest, and Russia's Parliament had urged him to recognize the Donbass Republics at that point, probably to try to deter Ukraine from started said assault. Putin declined to recognize said republics at that point, but the next day, Ukraine actually started its military assault and continued it until on February 21st, Putin decided to recognize said republics and his intention to protect them. I strongly suspect that this was Putin's final warning that Ukraine and its western allies had gone too far. Had Ukraine backed off at that point, I think that Putin wouldn't have started his military intervention on February 24th. For a long time now, I was aware that Putin made a speech on February 21st whose punchline was the recognition of the Donbass Republics as well as a "Treaty of Friendship and Mutual Assistance with both republics".

Here are the final words of his February 21, 2024 speech:
**
We want those who seized and continue to hold power in Kiev to immediately stop hostilities. Otherwise, the responsibility for the possible continuation of the bloodshed will lie entirely on the conscience of Ukraine’s ruling regime.

As I announce the decisions taken today, I remain confident in the support of Russia’s citizens and the country’s patriotic forces.
**

Source:

Address by the President of the Russian Federation

en.kremlin.ru

Unfortunately, Ukraine continued its military assault on the Donbass Republics and thus, 3 days later, Putin started his military operation in Ukraine.

That is a confident prediction, a confident timeline, a confident statement made by the highest authority in the nation.

"Every indication" is authoritative.

 

[Scott]

Western officials were clear as to why they didn't do that:
**

Why are so many Western officials so adamant?​

A no-fly zone, many Western officials say, would draw the U.S. and its NATO allies into direct combat with Russia, as fighter pilots from the two sides in theory would try to shoot each other down — an escalation that many liken to a world war, one involving two major nuclear powers.

“The only way to implement a no-fly zone is to send NATO fighter planes into Ukrainian airspace, and then impose that no-fly zone by shooting down Russian planes,” Stoltenberg said. “We understand the desperation, but we also believe that if we did that, we would end up with something that could end in a full-fledged war in Europe.”
**

Source:

Ukraine wants a no-fly zone. Why do the U.S. and NATO reject the idea?

A no-fly zone to protect Ukraine from Putin's bombs would involve complex ground operations and risk U.S.-Russian conflict and wider war in Europe.

www.latimes.com

Bullshit.

Well, I suppose that's -one- way to "counter" my arguments. This reminds me of the scene in Dr. Strangelove wherein a man in a cowboy hat manages to loose a nuke on to Russia by manually pushing/kicking it into position, thus igniting World War III. Say what you like, but I've noted that you've provided 0 evidence that your gung ho attitude wouldn't have resulted in World War III and possibly made Einstein's prediction true:
"I do not know with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones"

You may want to play a game of chicken with Russia and see if it happens, but fortunately, cooler heads in Washington prevailed and this still seems to be the case. This giving of F16s shows that they are slipping though. We can only hope they don't slip too far, if indeed they haven't already.

 

[Scott]

From what I've read, that's not completely accurate. The title of this CNN article makes it clear that Biden was only saying that Russia was giving "every indication" that it would soon start a military intervention:

Biden: ‘Every indication’ is that Russia will attack Ukraine ‘within the next several days’ | CNN​

In the quotes that you snipped out in your response to my post, Former Swiss Intelligence Officer Jacques Baud stated that he wasn't sure why Biden felt this way, but he points out that Ukraine had been on the verge of starting a renewed military assault since February 15th at the latest, and Russia's Parliament had urged him to recognize the Donbass Republics at that point, probably to try to deter Ukraine from starting said assault. Putin declined to recognize said republics at that point, but the next day, Ukraine actually started its military assault and continued it until on February 21st, Putin decided to recognize said republics and his intention to protect them. I strongly suspect that this was Putin's final warning that Ukraine and its western allies had gone too far. Had Ukraine backed off at that point, I think that Putin wouldn't have started his military intervention on February 24th. For a long time now, I was aware that Putin made a speech on February 21st whose punchline was the recognition of the Donbass Republics as well as a "Treaty of Friendship and Mutual Assistance with both republics", but I didn't actually skim through it. I finally decided to change that today.

Here are the final words of his February 21, 2024 speech:
**
We want those who seized and continue to hold power in Kiev to immediately stop hostilities. Otherwise, the responsibility for the possible continuation of the bloodshed will lie entirely on the conscience of Ukraine’s ruling regime.

As I announce the decisions taken today, I remain confident in the support of Russia’s citizens and the country’s patriotic forces.
**

Source:

Address by the President of the Russian Federation

en.kremlin.ru

Unfortunately, Ukraine continued its military assault on the Donbass Republics and thus, 3 days later, Putin started his military operation in Ukraine.

That is a confident prediction, a confident timeline, a confident statement made by the highest authority in the nation.

"Every indication" is authoritative.

Look, we've agreed that Biden stated he was fairly confident that Russia would attack in the next few days. What you seem to refuse to process is the lack of information on why he was so confident, as well as what Ukraine was doing in the final week prior to Russia's military intervention. That's way more important than exactly how confident he was that Russia was going to attack soon.

 

[Bigdog]

Well, I suppose that's -one- way to "counter" my arguments. This reminds me of the scene in Dr. Strangelove wherein a man in a cowboy hat manages to loose a nuke on to Russia by manually pushing/kicking it into position, thus igniting World War III. Say what you like, but I've noted that you've provided 0 evidence that your gung ho attitude wouldn't have resulted in World War III and possibly made Einstein's prediction true:
"I do not know with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones"

You may want to play a game of chicken with Russia and see if it happens, but fortunately, cooler heads in Washington prevailed and this still seems to be the case. This giving of F16s shows that they are slipping though. We can only hope they don't slip too far, if indeed they haven't already.

Good movie. Classic scene

He was just a working man, it was the political elite Cooler Heads that ordered the strike.

What targets do you think Putin would nuke if we shot down his planes over Ukraine?

 

[Bigdog]

Look, we've agreed that Biden stated he was fairly confident that Russia would attack in the next few days. What you seem to refuse to process is the lack of information on why he was so confident, as well as what Ukraine was doing in the final week prior to Russia's military intervention. That's way more important than exactly how confident he was that Russia was going to attack soon.

I will never know all the details that Biden had and I don't care.

He is the one with the authority to make the prediction an official presidential statement at the highest confidence levels.

And we know Hot Mic Obama was secretly colluding with Putin on military matters.

 

[Scott]

Well, I suppose that's -one- way to "counter" my arguments. This reminds me of the scene in Dr. Strangelove wherein a man in a cowboy hat manages to loose a nuke on to Russia by manually pushing/kicking it into position, thus igniting World War III. Say what you like, but I've noted that you've provided 0 evidence that your gung ho attitude wouldn't have resulted in World War III and possibly made Einstein's prediction true:
"I do not know with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones"

You may want to play a game of chicken with Russia and see if it happens, but fortunately, cooler heads in Washington prevailed and this still seems to be the case. This giving of F16s shows that they are slipping though. We can only hope they don't slip too far, if indeed they haven't already.

Good movie. Classic scene

We can agree on that anyway .

He was just a working man, it was the political elite Cooler Heads that ordered the strike.

We can agree that it was the political elite that ordered the strike. Can we perhaps agree that their heads were hot rather than cool though?

What targets do you think Putin would nuke if we shot down his planes over Ukraine?

I'm not sure he'd nuke any targets, but that's the point- I'm not sure. There was this recent headline related to the U.S. deploying more nukes in Europe:

Russia says it may deploy nuclear missiles in response to US weapons in Germany | Reuters​

The most important thing here is that the U.S. has been aiding and abetting a Neo Nazi founded Ukrainian government since 2014 and they're now escalating things to the point that nukes might start being deployed. So, U.S. is basically the bad guy here, and like many bad guys, they're attempting to up the stakes to the point that things get way out of hand.

 

[Scott]

Look, we've agreed that Biden stated he was fairly confident that Russia would attack in the next few days. What you seem to refuse to process is the lack of information on why he was so confident, as well as what Ukraine was doing in the final week prior to Russia's military intervention. That's way more important than exactly how confident he was that Russia was going to attack soon.

I will never know all the details that Biden had and I don't care.

He is the one with the authority to make the prediction an official presidential statement at the highest confidence levels.

Frankly, what Biden knew isn't my primary concern. My primary concern is why Russia started its military intervention to begin with. This is one area you seem to refuse to look at. Perhaps you've bought into all that nonsense about it being an "unprovoked attack"?

And we know Hot Mic Obama was secretly colluding with Putin on military matters.

No, "we" don't know that. I've seen absolutely no evidence that Obama colluded with Putin on anything. Not only that, but it was on his watch that the U.S. supported the Neo Nazis behind Euromaidan to take over the Ukrainian government.

 

[Bigdog]

We can agree on that anyway .



We can agree that it was the political elite that ordered the strike. Can we perhaps agree that their heads were hot rather than cool though?



I'm not sure he'd nuke any targets, but that's the point- I'm not sure. There was this recent headline related to the U.S. deploying more nukes in Europe:

Russia says it may deploy nuclear missiles in response to US weapons in Germany | Reuters​

The most important thing here is that the U.S. has been aiding and abetting a Neo Nazi founded Ukrainian government since 2014 and they're now escalating things to the point that nukes might start being deployed. So, U.S. is basically the bad guy here, and like many bad guys, they're attempting to up the stakes to the point that things get way out of hand.

I don't recall what prompted them to order the strike in the movie.

So you've ratcheted back to "I'm not sure" once confronted with the absurdity of your claim about a no fly zone.

So one guy gets elected to a 450 member parliament, and you paint over half of Ukraine as Nazis. One out of 450 is less than 0.2% or the pop. and I don't know how awful his opponent was. But this is your proof Ukrainians are Nazis, Scott??

 

[Bigdog]

Frankly, what Biden knew isn't my primary concern. My primary concern is why Russia started its military intervention to begin with. This is one area you seem to refuse to look at. Perhaps you've bought into all that nonsense about it being an "unprovoked attack"?



No, "we" don't know that. I've seen absolutely no evidence that Obama colluded with Putin on anything. Not only that, but it was on his watch that the U.S. supported the Neo Nazis behind Euromaidan to take over the Ukrainian government.

Yes, we do know. Obama got caught on a Hot Mic with Medvedev secretly colluding with Vlad on military matters. Even asking him to keep it a secret from American voters.

Enlighten me. Why did Putin capture Crimea?

 

[Scott]

We can agree that it was the political elite that ordered the strike. Can we perhaps agree that their heads were hot rather than cool though?

I don't recall what prompted them to order the strike in the movie.

I didn't remember myself, so I skimmed through the movie just now. Turns out, the order was given at the very start of the movie by one General Ripper, who'd gone mad. He also set things up to make it very difficult to recall the planes. That being said, most of the planes -were- recalled, but one plane had its radio damaged and thus couldn't get the recall order. That one plan dropped its nuke on a Russian target, which set off a "doomsday" device in Russia, which instigated World War III.

Well, I suppose that's -one- way to "counter" my arguments. This reminds me of the scene in Dr. Strangelove wherein a man in a cowboy hat manages to loose a nuke on to Russia by manually pushing/kicking it into position, thus igniting World War III. Say what you like, but I've noted that you've provided 0 evidence that your gung ho attitude wouldn't have resulted in World War III and possibly made Einstein's prediction true:
"I do not know with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones"

You may want to play a game of chicken with Russia and see if it happens, but fortunately, cooler heads in Washington prevailed and this still seems to be the case. This giving of F16s shows that they are slipping though. We can only hope they don't slip too far, if indeed they haven't already.

What targets do you think Putin would nuke if we shot down his planes over Ukraine?

I'm not sure he'd nuke any targets, but that's the point- I'm not sure. There was this recent headline related to the U.S. deploying more nukes in Europe:

Russia says it may deploy nuclear missiles in response to US weapons in Germany | Reuters​

So you've ratcheted back to "I'm not sure" once confronted with the absurdity of your claim about a no fly zone.

I didn't ratchet back anything- I said that you've "provided 0 evidence that your gung ho attidude wouldn't have resulted in World War III" and I stand by that assertion.

 

[Scott]

The most important thing here is that the U.S. has been aiding and abetting a Neo Nazi founded Ukrainian government since 2014 and they're now escalating things to the point that nukes might start being deployed. So, U.S. is basically the bad guy here, and like many bad guys, they're attempting to up the stakes to the point that things get way out of hand.

So one guy gets elected to a 450 member parliament, and you paint over half of Ukraine as Nazis.

Again, I never claimed that "over half of Ukraine" are Nazis. That being said, the evidence is quite clear that Neo Nazis played an enormous role in the Euromaidan coup. I already provided plenty of evidence for this in post #65.

 

[Scott]

No, "we" don't know that. I've seen absolutely no evidence that Obama colluded with Putin on anything. Not only that, but it was on his watch that the U.S. supported the Neo Nazis behind Euromaidan to take over the Ukrainian government.

Yes, we do know. Obama got caught on a Hot Mic with Medvedev secretly colluding with Vlad on military matters. Even asking him to keep it a secret from American voters.

You have any evidence for those assertions?

Enlighten me. Why did Putin capture Crimea?

From a british publication:
**

Why did it happen?​

President Vladimir Putin had insisted Russia annexed Crimea to protect ethnic Russians from “far-right extremists” whom Russia claimed overthrown President Yanukovych.

In a 2015 documentary, Mr Putin said he took the decision on 23 February hours after the Ukrainian leader had fled Kyiv.

“I told all my colleagues, ‘We are forced to begin the work to bring Crimea back into Russia’,” he said.
**

Source:

Why did Russia annex Crimea? What happened when Putin invaded in 2014 and how Nato reacted

Russia has long been resistant to Ukraine's move towards European institutions, particularly Nato

inews.co.uk

Even Obama has acknowledged why the annexation was so easy to some extent. RT wrote a good article on some statements Obama made back in 2023:

Russia praises Obama’s words on Crimea

The Kremlin described ex-US President Barack Obama’s remark that many Crimeans felt Russia represented their interests as “rational”

www.rt.com

Quoting from the article:
**
Former US President Barack Obama’s most recent remarks on Crimea have featured some “rational thinking,” Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov has claimed. Peskov was responding to an interview aired by CNN on Thursday, in which Obama acknowledged that a large number of residents on the peninsula supported Russia’s position in 2014.

“There’s a reason why there was not an armed invasion of Crimea [in 2014], because Crimea was full of a lot of Russian speakers,” the former US leader told CNN’s Christiane Amanpour, adding that “there was some sympathy to the view that Russia was representing its interests.”

Responding on Friday, Peskov stated that “from time to time such rational thinking finds its way out [in the US].”

“There was indeed a sufficiently large faction of politicians who supported the idea of developing good relations with Russia [and] who spoke out against Russophobia being imposed,” he added.
**

The only issue Russia apparently had with Obama's statements is their view that he was downplaying the amount of Crimeans who wanted to return to Russia:
**
The Kremlin spokesperson, however, took issue with Obama’s estimate on the number of Crimeans who backed unification with Russia.

“It’s not a certain part of the Crimean population, but practically the entire Crimean population that wanted to become part of the Russian Federation,” Peskov said.

The vast majority of Crimeans voted in favor of joining Russia in a referendum held in March 2014, shortly after a Western-backed coup had deposed the democratically elected government in Kiev.

Many Crimean residents refused to recognize the new authorities in Kiev and expressed concern at the potential forced ‘Ukrainization’ of the peninsula, including discrimination against Russian speakers.
**

This statement is backed up by independent American Canadian journalist Eva Bartlett who went to Crimea after Russia annexed it to find out what happened and wrote an article about her time there. Quoting from her article:
**
Since there was so much hype in Western media about a Russian takeover of the peninsula, I ask the burning questions: Were Crimeans forced to take part in the referendum? What was the mood like around that time? Tata replied:
"I never saw so many people in my life go out to vote, of their own free will. There was a period before the referendum, maybe about two months, during which there were two holidays: International Women’s Day, March 8, and Defender of the Fatherland Day, February 23.

Normally, people would go away on vacation during these holidays. But that year, Crimeans didn’t go anywhere; they wanted to be sure they were here during the referendum. We felt the sense of a miracle about to happen. People were anxiously awaiting the referendum.

There were military tents in the city, but they were not erected by the military, but by local men. They would stand there every day, and people could come and sign a document calling for a referendum.

I went one day and asked if I could add my name but I couldn’t, because I have a Russian passport. Only Crimean citizens could sign it. This was the fair way to do it.

At that time, my husband was in America. One day, he was watching CNN and got scared and called me because he saw reports of soldiers in the streets, an ‘invasion’ by Russia.

The local navy came from Sevastopol to Yalta and anchored their ships off the coast, made a blockade to ensure no larger Ukrainian or other ships could come and attack. But I never saw tanks, I never saw Russian soldiers. I never saw any of that in the city.”
**

Source:

Return to Russia: Crimeans Tell the Real Story of the 2014 Referendum and Their Lives Since

Eva Bartlett traveled to Crimea to see how people have fared since their country reunited with Russia and what the referendum was really like

www.mintpressnews.com

 

[Bigdog]

I didn't remember myself, so I skimmed through the movie just now. Turns out, the order was given at the very start of the movie by one General Ripper, who'd gone mad. He also set things up to make it very difficult to recall the planes. That being said, most of the planes -were- recalled, but one plane had its radio damaged and thus couldn't get the recall order. That one plan dropped its nuke on a Russian target, which set off a "doomsday" device in Russia, which instigated World War III.



I didn't ratchet back anything- I said that you've "provided 0 evidence that your gung ho attidude wouldn't have resulted in World War III" and I stand by that assertion.

Thanks. I remember most of that. I don't recall why the General had the authority or what Russian actions triggered the mad General.

We'll never know since Biden didn't even try a No Fly zone even tho he knew the invasion was imminent.

And you have provided no evidence that Putin would have nuked anything had we shot down some of his war planes attacking Ukraine which we were sworn to defend.

 

[Bigdog]

Again, I never claimed that "over half of Ukraine" are Nazis. That being said, the evidence is quite clear that Neo Nazis played an enormous role in the Euromaidan coup. I already provided plenty of evidence for this in post #65.

One guy out of a 450 member parliament. So how much of Ukraine is nazi, in your opinion?