Should the US become a democracy?

[Into the Night]

I've read Federatlst #10. By "factions" he is referring to modern political parties.

No. He is referring to ANY political party.

 

[Into the Night]

Trump was properly impeached. He should have been removed from office. Trump was a neo-fascist and would be dictator.

YAVC. Doublespeak. Fascism is a form of socialism. Biden is fascist, just as you are. Trump is not a dictator.

 

[Into the Night]

I see. You think a republic is a wholly other thing than a democracy. Like saying it's not the ocean, it's the sea.

A republic is not a democracy. A democracy is not a republic.

 

[Into the Night]

Not wholly, but it has important differences. Over the years the U. S. has evolved into a more democratic system than the original constitution.

No. The United States is a federated republic. There is no democracy anywhere. There are fascist elements within government at both federal and State levels though. The SOTC is no longer a republic nor a State. It no longer honors or recognizes the Constitution of the United States nor the constitution of the State of California. It is an oligarchy, and lately seems to be moving to a dictatorship.

 

[Flash]

No. The United States is a federated republic. There is no democracy anywhere. There are fascist elements within government at both federal and State levels though. The SOTC is no longer a republic nor a State. It no longer honors or recognizes the Constitution of the United States nor the constitution of the State of California. It is an oligarchy, and lately seems to be moving to a dictatorship.

We choose most of our leaders in a democratic method. Everybody has the same legal rights. These are a couple of examples of democratic principles (but not limited to democracy).

 

[archives]

Democracies have no constitutions.

Paradox.

Apparently it is for you.

Of course they don’t, never has been a pure democracy cause it is an ideology, not a structure of Government, the ideology that creates America’s republic

As I said, not that difficult

 

[archives]

No. The United States is a federated republic. There is no democracy anywhere. There are fascist elements within government at both federal and State levels though. The SOTC is no longer a republic nor a State. It no longer honors or recognizes the Constitution of the United States nor the constitution of the State of California. It is an oligarchy, and lately seems to be moving to a dictatorship.

The federated republic is the way the Government is organized, the way it functions, not the way we attain that structure, arrive at that end

 

[Bubba]

Why are you running from the fucking question, Bubba? Cognitive dissonance a problem for you?

Do you support the right of abortion for the people you are referencing? Yes or no, please.

Well, Dutch Uncle, you're not the poster to whom my question was addressed. However, answer my question and I'll answer yours.

 

[Into the Night]

We choose most of our leaders in a democratic method.

WRONG. We choose representatives according to the procedures laid out in the constitution, and only the constitution.

Everybody has the same legal rights.

WRONG. I do not have the same legal right in someone's house or on their property that they have as the owners. Washington has different State laws from Idaho. For example, if you hit a cow in Washington, it may be the rancher's fault for allowing the cow out on the road. In Idaho, it's automatically your fault. I do not have the legal right to vote in Idaho. I live in Washington. I cannot vote on elections in Idaho, vote for any Idaho State legislature or any other officer in their State government, or for any officer in any city or town in Idaho.

These are a couple of examples of democratic principles (but not limited to democracy).

Democracies have no representatives and no constitution. Everything is by popular vote. It is mob rule. It is unstable form of government, quickly dissolving into an oligarchy or dictatorship. Athens dissolved into an oligarchy.

 

[Into the Night]

Of course they don’t, never has been a pure democracy cause it is an ideology, not a structure of Government, the ideology that creates America’s republic

As I said, not that difficult

True Scotsman fallacy. A democracy is a form of government. It is not a republic. It has nothing to do with a republic.

 

[Into the Night]

The federated republic is the way the Government is organized, the way it functions, not the way we attain that structure, arrive at that end

We arrived at a federated republic form of government through war, throwing off a dictator. You may have studied it briefly in school.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Well, Dutch Uncle, you're not the poster to whom my question was addressed. However, answer my question and I'll answer yours.

Ahh, so you run only from people you didn't ask the question. Figures.

Why do you put the word parasites in quote marks?? What term would you use to refer to people who make a living by pumping out baby after baby after baby??

Because you used the word. I was quoting you. Going out and be fruitful is a Abrahamic thing so I call those people Christians, Jews and Muslims. Why do you consider Christians, Jews and Muslims "parasites"?

Will you now answer my question about abortion or do you want to keep running with cognitive dissonance?

 

[philly rabbit]

We are constantly told by conservatives that the United States is a constitutional republic, not a democracy. Strictly speaking that’s not true. The popular vote decides every elected office at every level EXCEPT the Presidency.

We are told the electoral college was dreamt up to persuade smaller states to accept the Constitution. Otherwise - oh no! - a state such as Rhode Island would have been in danger of being overshadowed by the likes of Virginia or Pennsylvania.

More than two centuries later America is still saddled with this archaic deal, and it’s getting worse. Two out of the past six presidential elections were won by a candidate who lost the popular vote. We The People didn’t want George W Bush (the first time) or Donald J Trump (at all). Now, soon-to-be ex-President Trump is having a two-month sulk because he thinks he should have kept the job after losing both the popular vote AND the electoral college.

Time for a rethink when the system throws up freaks like that.

No, we need to maintain the electoral college.

You socialists would love New York and California deciding every national election.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Without the electoral college, the GOP would have had one or possibly two presidential terms since Reagan. It didn’t work out for them this year. Time to come up with a new dodge?

I’m not sure Trump is on the right track, though. America may not be a democracy, but for the SCOTUS to choose the POTUS could be a step too far.

The dynamics would certainly change, but you could be correct. Regardless, there's NFW 38 states are going to ratify an Amendment giving New York and California the power to decide every President in the United States.

The US is a democracy, but it's representative democracy AKA Republic. It would be nearly impossible for a nation of 329M to democratically vote on annual budgets, apportionment of budgets, international policy, trade agreements, national defense, etc, etc, etc. Ergo, electing representatives from every region is the best way to go.

Agreed that having 9 judges pick the President doesn't work in our interests either.

 

[Truck Fump / h1b]

The dynamics would certainly change, but you could be correct. Regardless, there's NFW 38 states are going to ratify an Amendment giving New York and California the power to decide every President in the United States.

The US is a democracy, but it's representative democracy AKA Republic. It would be nearly impossible for a nation of 329M to democratically vote on annual budgets, apportionment of budgets, international policy, trade agreements, national defense, etc, etc, etc. Ergo, electing representatives from every region is the best way to go.

Agreed that having 9 judges pick the President doesn't work in our interests either.

a republic is not a representative democracy. that's a new lie, lie-bag.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

We are constantly told by conservatives that the United States is a constitutional republic, not a democracy. Strictly speaking that’s not true. The popular vote decides every elected office at every level EXCEPT the Presidency.

We are told the electoral college was dreamt up to persuade smaller states to accept the Constitution. Otherwise - oh no! - a state such as Rhode Island would have been in danger of being overshadowed by the likes of Virginia or Pennsylvania.

More than two centuries later America is still saddled with this archaic deal, and it’s getting worse. Two out of the past six presidential elections were won by a candidate who lost the popular vote. We The People didn’t want George W Bush (the first time) or Donald J Trump (at all). Now, soon-to-be ex-President Trump is having a two-month sulk because he thinks he should have kept the job after losing both the popular vote AND the electoral college.

Time for a rethink when the system throws up freaks like that.

The popular vote decides every elected office at every level EXCEPT the Presidency.

WRONG! In a presidential election each states electoral votes go to the candidate that won the popular vote. Only exception is Nebraska and Maine the only states using the District Method of distributing electoral votes. Thus the presidency is won by the candidate that wins the majority of electoral votes based on the popular vote.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

WRONG! In a presidential election each states electoral votes go to the candidate that won the popular vote. Only exception is Nebraska and Maine the only states using the District Method of distributing electoral votes. Thus the presidency is won by the candidate that wins the majority of electoral votes based on the popular vote.

Agreed. If the Democrats really wanted to "fix" the EC system, they'd focus on the doable task of persuading each state to adopt the Nebraska/Maine model of EC vote distribution rather than the nearly-impossible task of amending the Constitution.

IMO, their EC-pact plan is doomed to failure.

 

[Flash]

WRONG. We choose representatives according to the procedures laid out in the constitution, and only the constitution.

Correct. And the Constitution provided for House members to be elected directly by the voters which is a democratic procedure. States gave the voters of their state the right to select electors which is adding a democratic element to the electoral college. We amended the Constitution to give the voters the power to directly choose Senators which is also a democratic procedure.

So, like I stated, the Constitution has evolved into a more democratic government than originally written because we have given the voters a greater role in choosing their officials.

WRONG. I do not have the same legal right in someone's house or on their property that they have as the owners. Washington has different State laws from Idaho. For example, if you hit a cow in Washington, it may be the rancher's fault for allowing the cow out on the road. In Idaho, it's automatically your fault. I do not have the legal right to vote in Idaho. I live in Washington. I cannot vote on elections in Idaho, vote for any Idaho State legislature or any other officer in their State government, or for any officer in any city or town in Idaho.

I should have said we all have the same constitutional rights. Government is prohibited from abridging certain rights and that applies to everyone in the U. S.

Democracies have no representatives and no constitution. Everything is by popular vote. It is mob rule. It is unstable form of government, quickly dissolving into an oligarchy or dictatorship. Athens dissolved into an oligarchy.

That is a pure or direct democracy that does not exist outside of New England town meetings. All other nations categorized as democracies, including the U. S., are representative democracies.

Still, there differences between the U. S. and other representative democracies that make them more "democratic"

 

[Nordberg]

The electoral college was installed to get slave states to join the union. They have, 200 years ago. It was not designed to provide more power for smaller states. That is anathema to democracy. It is way past time to get rid of it. The majority of people should pick the president. There is no vote that emulates the electoral college because it is admired for fairness. If you vote for any other position it is proudly called "majority rules". A union leader is picked by majority rules. A school board is run by it. Nobody suggests a modified electoral college. It is wrong.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

The electoral college was installed to get slave states to join the union. They have, 200 years ago. It was not designed to provide more power for smaller states. That is anathema to democracy. It is way past time to get rid of it. The majority of people should pick the president. There is no vote that emulates the electoral college because it is admired for fairness. If you vote for any other position it is proudly called "majority rules". A union leader is picked by majority rules. A school board is run by it. Nobody suggests a modified electoral college. It is wrong.

$100 says you can't change the EC by this time next year.

BTW, your version of history differs greatly with the official version. Where did you learn your version?

https://www.archives.gov/electoral-college/history
The Founding Fathers established the Electoral College in the Constitution, in part, as a compromise between the election of the President by a vote in Congress and election of the President by a popular vote of qualified citizens. However, the term “electoral college” does not appear in the Constitution. Article II of the Constitution and the 12th Amendment refer to “electors,” but not to the “electoral college.”

Since the Electoral College process is part of the original design of the U.S. Constitution it would be necessary to pass a Constitutional amendment to change this system.

The ratification of the 12th Amendment, the expansion of voting rights, and the States’ use of the popular vote to determine who will be appointed as electors have each substantially changed the process.