Sick of the GOP

i wish that the other justices thought the same

Roberts had to bend completely over backwards to justify his position as a tax authority, that BTW, you probably won't even call it a tax today, and it is the other justices that voted not constitutional are the problem? So I guess decisions should all be 100% liberal application, or they are just hacks right?
 
Roberts had to bend completely over backwards to justify his position as a tax authority, that BTW, you probably won't even call it a tax today, and it is the other justices that voted not constitutional are the problem? So I guess decisions should all be 100% liberal application, or they are just hacks right?

i expect that the justices ignore politics and rule on the constitutionality of each case

whether the mandate is called a tax, i do not care

personally, i would prefer that the health care law had been medicare for all
 
i expect that the justices ignore politics and rule on the constitutionality of each case

As do we all, but that hasn't been the benchmark ever since Marbury v. Madison. Once precedent got in, all bets were off and we were on the track of no longer following out own governing document.

whether the mandate is called a tax, i do not care

Oh sure you do, otherwise you'd not be touting the win, while running from the basis of that win.

personally, i would prefer that the health care law had been medicare for all

Yep, I know single payer is the ultimate end, that these means are supposed to accomplish...But, Medicare today has a $38 Billion unfunded liability, and so let's add everyone and collapse 1/6 of the US economy....Good plan.
 
As do we all, but that hasn't been the benchmark ever since Marbury v. Madison. Once precedent got in, all bets were off and we were on the track of no longer following out own governing document.



Oh sure you do, otherwise you'd not be touting the win, while running from the basis of that win.



Yep, I know single payer is the ultimate end, that these means are supposed to accomplish...But, Medicare today has a $38 Billion unfunded liability, and so let's add everyone and collapse 1/6 of the US economy....Good plan.

are you sure of the damage to the economy?

i notice that you have not mentioned how much the premiums would be and whether they would offset the costs

i have paid payroll taxes for medicare since it was created

another thing, people are paying for health insurance now so whether it is paid for as a payroll tax or just a tax, the costs are born by the economy right now

people who are uninsured are a burden to society right now via emergency rooms
 
Blame, blame, blame....It's Insurance lobbists, it's Bush's fault, it's republican's, it's Europe, it's ATM's, it's anyone but demo's fault for all the inability to get what they wanted....Even the American people's fault...Demo's had a filibuster proof congress with a liberal democrat President for 2009,2010, blocked republicans from even being in the discussions making up this 2700 page monstrosity, told us that if we didn't like it we should sit down, and shut up because elections have consequences.

The first thing to remember is discussions about Obamacare started with Repub participation. The plan started out trying to accommodate the Repubs so things were discussed and agreed upon. After it was realized the Repubs were doing all they could to gut the plan and they were removed from the discussions some of the things that were previously agreed upon remained. It was not a plan drawn up solely by the Dems.

Now that it is election time, and this thing is as unpopular as the day y'all rammed it down our throats, you say that's ok, once we get you hooked on the "freebies" you'll like it. Like a drug dealer works, they say 'just try it'....Then if the person they are trying to hook turns on them and turns them in, they blame their own misfortune on the person, instead of their illegal behavior.

Support is greater than it was in the beginning. People who are getting coverage for pre-existing conditions. People with children up to age 26. As more benefits come on line people will understand the true nature of the plan and not the nonsense like death panels, etc.

People of this country see that this law is a lemon, and they don't want it, nor do they want the lie that it is either. This law designed to actually destroy 1/6 of the economy so that government has no choice but to step in and take it over in the form of single payer health care that has destroyed health systems in other countries, lowered levels of care, and bankrupted these countries that have single payer.

So making money off the ill is more important than supplying medical care? As for "destroyed health systems in other countries, lowered levels of care" every statistic shows a saving of money and an equal or greater life expectancy.

Medical care does not bankrupt countries. It's illogical. Take a family of 4 consisting of 2 parents and 2 young adults (students). Let's say each individual buys a dental plan. Compare that cost to a dental plan covering the family. The family plan will be cheaper.

Look at company medical. It's cheaper for someone to have a medical plan through an employer because of the large number of employees.

Everything is cheaper when purchased as a group. Why would a government medical plan be any different?

Now I am sure I will hear nothing but snarky little responses calling me names, throwing a slew of profane language, and asking me to 'prove' every little sentence I say here, when no article, no proof could ever satisfy because in the end it would mean that these people would have to have an open mind to consider something other than their own ideology, or be open to discussion in an honest fashion.

It isn't an ideology. Produce one chart that shows a country with government medical paying more than the US. Show one prominent politician in any country with government medical campaigning on eliminating it.

When people talk about the US having better medical when the longevity in other countries is equal to or greater than in the US what is the definition of "better"? When people talk about countries having "lowered levels of care" when the longevity in other countries is equal to or greater than in the US what is the definition of "lowered levels of care"? And when people talk about a loss of jobs due to government medical does that include the plight of the undertakers, as well? If a Harvard study is to be believed then 45,000 fewer "clients" will be available.

After over half a century (much longer for certain countries) not one country has reverted to a "pay or suffer" system. In all cases not one politician will touch that subject because it would be the last thing they talked about as a politician. The overwhelming evidence is people comprising dozens of diverse cultures all agree on government medical. Not one exception.

Government medical is a money saver and longevity is equal to or greater than in the US. If there's another reason why ObamaCare should be cancelled we're listening.
 
are you sure of the damage to the economy?

I am no economist by any stretch of the imagination..But, we do have other countries to look at when it comes to top down control of health care. Regardless of what the Star wars barroom cast in the UN would prefer everyone to be under, single payer systems raise taxation, and provide limited, if not sub standard services. It stifles innovation, and ends in politicizing our health care system.

i notice that you have not mentioned how much the premiums would be and whether they would offset the costs

Well, I have heard that premiums in these so called exchanges by 2016 could be as much as $12k per family. Now, most of the reason that young people don't carry insurance now, is because they can't afford it, how are they supposed to afford $1,000 per month?

i have paid payroll taxes for medicare since it was created

So, how does that change the fact that they have that unfunded liability? Are you saying that you'd break the bank because you were lied to on what you were forced to pay for, and screw everyone else, even your children? Listen, I've paid in too, but the likely hood that benefits will not change for the worse should it follow the progressive plan of 'Medicare for all' is a pipe dream.

another thing, people are paying for health insurance now so whether it is paid for as a payroll tax or just a tax, the costs are born by the economy right now

Two things...

1. I pay about $60. per week for Health, Dental, Vision, and Disability insurances. When that figure rises to the $250. per week forecast, I can't afford that...And I don't know many who can.

2. I am not saying that things are just peachy with the current insurance system, but single payer is not the answer.

people who are uninsured are a burden to society right now via emergency rooms

There is proof that this Obamacare tax would not change that, in fact it may increase....

Liberal pundits are thrilled by a recent (non-peer-reviewed) blog post claiming that Romneycare — the universal coverage program that Mitt Romney enacted in Massachusetts in 2006 — has put a lid on skyrocketing health care costs. But they shouldn’t pop the cork yet: The evidence shows neither that the declining costs will last nor that they are the result of the program.

Progressives have long argued that it is not only uncivilized but also uneconomical that America does not offer coverage to all Americans. Uninsured patients impose undue costs because, instead of getting regular checkups and timely care, they rush to emergency rooms or wait until their conditions worsen. It’s no coincidence, under this view, that America is the world’s biggest health care spender (16 percent of gross domestic product) and also has the most uninsured citizens (45 million). Cover the uninsured and, voila, health care spending will stop soaring. But critics argue that savings from overuse of emergency care could not possibly offset the spending increases that patients with lavish coverage and no incentive for prudence would trigger.

So far, the evidence has been on the critics’ side. Indeed, a 2010 study by Stanford University’s John Cogan and others in the Forum for Health Economics & Policy found that in the first two years after Romneycare, premiums in Massachusetts in nearly every category shot up above the national average.

http://www.thedaily.com/page/2012/03/01/030112-opinions-column-romneycare-dalmia-1-3/
 
Apparently you missed the "discussion" between USF, disloyal and ID in which they discussed doing just that to my 4 year old (at the time) daughter.

Zappa you are adding people, well one person at least, to the list that weren't there. USFree has never suggested anything like that. That's flat wrong to suggest he has. Plus, if you don't want that discussed about your daughter do not bring it back here. The person/s who spoke that way about your daughter are no longer welcome here and you know it.
 
So far, the evidence has been on the critics’ side. Indeed, a 2010 study by Stanford University’s John Cogan and others in the Forum for Health Economics & Policy found that in the first two years after Romneycare, premiums in Massachusetts in nearly every category shot up above the national average.

You 're a funny guy.
 
Ah but christie, that label of 'shill politician disguised as a Justice' was only to be used if he voted against a program that you believe in. Since he didn't, all the progressives seem to just love him.

I don't love him. He's like the blind squirrel who occasionally finds a nut. The majority of his decisions I've disagreed with.
 
So far, the evidence has been on the critics’ side. Indeed, a 2010 study by Stanford University’s John Cogan and others in the Forum for Health Economics & Policy found that in the first two years after Romneycare, premiums in Massachusetts in nearly every category shot up above the national average.

You 're a funny guy.

So you can provide proof that the Stanford study was wrong?
 
You think I am younger than you? From the way you perceive I am acting no doubt. To me the race between the first black president and the first corporate president is the battle of the century.

You have many good points and I have always respected your point of veiw. I realize I am over the edge and I an sorry. I don't have a good poker face, it is one of my weaknesses. At the same time Bijou makes valid points, I am glad I was not able to trainwreck you two. My personal stress level is near max, and I am letting it show here.

Sending good wishes your way, Rune. I think you're a fantastic poster and hope your RL issues get resolved in your favor.
 
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