Slavery, the Prison/Industrial Complex, and American Hypocrisy

[Damocles]

1) Cost of relocating - you could still have the same cost of labor, but not have to relocate

2) Public relations - they would then not be "outsourcing", but keeping the jobs here AND reducing tax payers liabilities

3) Rehabilitation

In number 1's case, there is significant savings because you are not using your own facilities. However, in outsourcing you would not either that one is moot. If you are outsourcing you are not paying to relocate. They chose the prison because it was cheaper, not because it would garner good public relations and they wouldn't have to relocate.

In number 2, most outsourcing is still done with American corps. Teletech and other companies are usually who such jobs would be outsourced to. This one too is moot, they can keep the jobs here without prisoners taking your information over the phone. This too shows how much cheaper it must be than regular outsourcing companies, seriously are you going to call the airline that BAC keeps bringing up because you think prison labor is great? Give them your credit card, I'll call a different airline after a bit of research.

And number 3, it is only rehabilitation if it is primarily the choice of the prisoner. However, I do not want to trust a con with my credit card information in order to help him rehabilitate, especially one that was given 'incentive' to be there rather than chose to be there.

 

[blackascoal]

Please demonstrate how they are stupid BAC. You continue your chants of slavery yet fail to address any of my points. Darla and others that disagree don't seem to have a problem discussing the issue. Enlighten me. Enough of your bullshit crying ... defend your position.

As long as you continue with "dipshit" and other stupid ass name-calling, don't expect to get civility from me. Any and everyone who engages in civil respectful conversation will get the same from me.

Try being an adult instead of a fucking asshole.

 

[Cancel7]

I would love to see a study on that, because it would certainly as you say show racial bias and the extent to which it exists in sentencing.

There are middle and upper class black women? WHO THE HELL let that happen.



totally kidding (this has been inserted in case old man donny is reading and gets confused by the preceding smiley that is winking)

I can't find any, I'm not the best googler in the world. I did find what look to be some great books on the subject. Unfortunately, I haven't read any of them. Another thing to look at would be, what is the percentage of white kids smoking pot vs the percentage of black kids, and why are black kids getting busted for it in the first place more often? My guess would be profiling. They're getting stopped more. Christ when I think about what I used to walk around with on me. Seriously, I don't smoke it anymore, but when I was younger. I'd walk around with bags of that stuff on me, NEVER gave it a thought. Never. That is how insulated I was as a white child of the middle class. I didn't have to think about it.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

I was pretty sure you wouldn't get it.

Then explain the above... rather than addressing my point, you said the above. Which was the first interaction between the two of us on this thread. Which to me implied that you either thought I wouldn't understand because I was white or that I was not intelligent enough. Tell me how that was civil?

 

[Litmus]

Then explain the above... rather than addressing my point, you said the above. Which was the first interaction between the two of us on this thread. Which to me implied that you either thought I wouldn't understand because I was white or that I was not intelligent enough. Tell me how that was civil?

Your black heart is a permanent incivility within your soul.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Your black heart is a permanent incivility within your soul.

Ummmmmkay...

 

[Cancel7]

Many of us have already engaged in the study of racial disparities in sentecing .. which is why we know what we're talking about. This isn't classism, it's racism.

July 18, 2007

The Sentencing Project Examines Racial, Ethnic Prison Disparity in New Report
http://www.sentencingproject.org/NewsDetails.aspx?NewsID=454

A new analysis by The Sentencing Project provides a regional examination of the racial and ethnic dynamics of incarceration in the U.S., and finds broad variations in racial disparity among the 50 states. The report, Uneven Justice: State Rates of Incarceration by Race and Ethnicity, finds that African Americans are incarcerated at nearly six (5.6) times the rate of whites and Hispanics nearly double (1.8) the rate.

Issue Area(s): Sentencing Policy, Incarceration, Racial Disparity, Drug Policy

The report also reveals wide variation in incarceration by state, with states in the Northeast and Midwest exhibiting the greatest black-to-white disparity in incarceration. In five states - Iowa, Vermont, New Jersey, Connecticut, and Wisconsin - African Americans are incarcerated at more than ten times the rate of whites.

"Racial disparities in incarceration reflect a failure of social and economic interventions to address crime effectively and also indicate racial bias in the justice system," stated Marc Mauer, Executive Director of The Sentencing Project. "The broad variation in the use of incarceration nationally suggests that policy decisions can play a key role in determining the size and composition of the prison population."

The report extends the findings of previous analyses by incorporating jail populations in the overall incarceration rate and by assessing the impact of incarceration on the Hispanic community, representing an increasing share of the prison population. The state figures for Hispanic incarceration also reveal broad variation nationally. Three states - Connecticut, Massachusetts, and Pennsylvania - have a Hispanic-to-white ratio of incarceration more than three times the national average.

Prior research from the Department of Justice has demonstrated that if current trends continue, one in three black males and one in six Hispanic males born today can expect to go to prison. Rates for women are lower overall, but exhibit similar racial and ethnic disparities.

To address the broad disparities in the criminal justice system, The Sentencing Project urges policymakers to implement a variety of measures.

These include:

Revisit the domestic drug control strategy, including recalibrating sentencing laws, such as the federal cocaine statutes which result in disproportionate numbers of low-level offenders being prosecuted;

Revisit the wisdom of mandatory minimum sentencing and restore appropriate judicial discretion to incorporate individual circumstances in the sentencing decision;

Establish enforceable and binding standards for indigent defense that ensure the provision of quality representation for all defendants;

Mandate that all legislation affecting the prison population be accompanied by a Racial Impact Statement to document the projected consequences for persons of color.

Interesting, his was the book I found that I thought looked like the one to read too. "Race to Incarcerate"

 

[Cancel7]

I said it was about wealth and not race. I have no problem saying it is about class and not race. There are poor people from every gender, race, religion and sexual preference. The more money you have, the more likely you are to get better treatment from the justice system.

Perhaps I am naive, I quite obviously not black and thus I may simply not be seeing the racism that perhaps you do. Because I live in a middle class neighborhood and work with a majority of middle to upper class individuals that I simply don't see it.


Of course you or I don’t see it. But, you or I can certainly read. Ever read about “driving while black”? Ever heard of “jury bias”.

I submit that blacks face a higher chance of being arrested because they are targeted (consciously or subconsciously) by law enforcement.

I submit that a black man is more likely to be found guilty by a jury because of his skin color, and a societal bias (conscious or subconscious) which assumes that a black man that has been arrested “must” have been guilty.

Ergo, if you’re wearing dark skin, you face a higher chance of arrest and conviction, than lighter skinned people who are engaged in similar illegal activities.


Yes, class is a factor in our justice system. But, it is naive to suggest race doesn't factor in as well.

I agree with this so strongly Cypress that in fact, I would be far less likely to convict a black man if I were on a jury, in fear of my OWN unconscious. I was raised in a racist society, therefore, I am racist. Now, I am not consciously racist, because I've faced that. But I understand that does not tell the whole story.

The prosecuter would not want me on a jury with a black man as a defendent, nor would I ever get on one if I openly told the truth.

 

[Cypress]

I would love to see a study on that, because it would certainly as you say show racial bias and the extent to which it exists in sentencing.

There are middle and upper class black women? WHO THE HELL let that happen.

totally kidding (this has been inserted in case old man donny is reading and gets confused by the preceding smiley that is winking)

"I would love to see a study on that, because it would certainly as you say show racial bias and the extent to which it exists in sentencing."

New report chronicles criminal justice system's racial bias

May 4, 2000
By Raju Chebium
CNN

WASHINGTON (CNN) - Minorities are more likely than whites to be put to death, imprisoned and pulled over by traffic police, a civil rights group said Thursday in a report concluding that U.S. law enforcement agencies treat whites and people of color in separate and unequal way.

The color of a person's skin is a better indicator of how long a person's sentence will be, whether or not a person will be pulled over by police, whether or not a person is given the death penalty, what kind of plea bargain a person is offered or whether or not a juvenile is tried as an adult," the group said in a statement.....

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/LAW/05/04/civil.rights/index.html

 

[Cancel7]

Your black heart is a permanent incivility within your soul.

SF is extremely excitable but he's not a bad guy. If you all dropped the name calling, the discussion would benefit.

 

[Litmus]

SF is extremely excitable but he's not a bad guy. If you all dropped the name calling, the discussion would benefit.

Eat snot, feminazi!

 

[Cancel7]

Many of us have already engaged in the study of racial disparities in sentecing .. which is why we know what we're talking about. This isn't classism, it's racism.

July 18, 2007

The Sentencing Project Examines Racial, Ethnic Prison Disparity in New Report
http://www.sentencingproject.org/NewsDetails.aspx?NewsID=454

A new analysis by The Sentencing Project provides a regional examination of the racial and ethnic dynamics of incarceration in the U.S., and finds broad variations in racial disparity among the 50 states. The report, Uneven Justice: State Rates of Incarceration by Race and Ethnicity, finds that African Americans are incarcerated at nearly six (5.6) times the rate of whites and Hispanics nearly double (1.8) the rate.

Issue Area(s): Sentencing Policy, Incarceration, Racial Disparity, Drug Policy

The report also reveals wide variation in incarceration by state, with states in the Northeast and Midwest exhibiting the greatest black-to-white disparity in incarceration. In five states - Iowa, Vermont, New Jersey, Connecticut, and Wisconsin - African Americans are incarcerated at more than ten times the rate of whites.

"Racial disparities in incarceration reflect a failure of social and economic interventions to address crime effectively and also indicate racial bias in the justice system," stated Marc Mauer, Executive Director of The Sentencing Project. "The broad variation in the use of incarceration nationally suggests that policy decisions can play a key role in determining the size and composition of the prison population."

The report extends the findings of previous analyses by incorporating jail populations in the overall incarceration rate and by assessing the impact of incarceration on the Hispanic community, representing an increasing share of the prison population. The state figures for Hispanic incarceration also reveal broad variation nationally. Three states - Connecticut, Massachusetts, and Pennsylvania - have a Hispanic-to-white ratio of incarceration more than three times the national average.

Prior research from the Department of Justice has demonstrated that if current trends continue, one in three black males and one in six Hispanic males born today can expect to go to prison. Rates for women are lower overall, but exhibit similar racial and ethnic disparities.

To address the broad disparities in the criminal justice system, The Sentencing Project urges policymakers to implement a variety of measures.

These include:

Revisit the domestic drug control strategy, including recalibrating sentencing laws, such as the federal cocaine statutes which result in disproportionate numbers of low-level offenders being prosecuted;

Revisit the wisdom of mandatory minimum sentencing and restore appropriate judicial discretion to incorporate individual circumstances in the sentencing decision;

Establish enforceable and binding standards for indigent defense that ensure the provision of quality representation for all defendants;

Mandate that all legislation affecting the prison population be accompanied by a Racial Impact Statement to document the projected consequences for persons of color.

It's really eye-popping that the Northeast stands out so much here. I guess that's why I never had to worry about carrying my pot on me back in the day. And it's why none of my friends ever got busted either.

 

[Cypress]

I agree with this so strongly Cypress that in fact, I would be far less likely to convict a black man if I were on a jury, in fear of my OWN unconscious. I was raised in a racist society, therefore, I am racist. Now, I am not consciously racist, because I've faced that. But I understand that does not tell the whole story.

The prosecuter would not want me on a jury with a black man as a defendent, nor would I ever get on one if I openly told the truth.

Same here. I was raised in a society that largely assumed any black man arrested by the cops "must" have done something wrong. I'd be afraid of whether any subconcious bias I might have come into play.

 

[Cypress]

PS: Darla, I'm glad you said that. I was once thrown off a jury pool, because the defendent was a black man with a drug charge. I told them I wouldn't vote to convict, ever. Partly because of Nazi drug laws, partly because I knew the system was totally stacked against the defendent getting an impartial trial.

 

[Damocles]

PS: Darla, I'm glad you said that. I was once thrown off a jury pool, because the defendent was a black man with a drug charge. I told them I wouldn't vote to convict, ever. Partly because of Nazi drug laws, partly because I knew the system was totally stacked against the defendent getting an impartial trial.

I would say that I would be impartial then vote my conscious as well as on the law.

 

[blackascoal]

Then explain the above... rather than addressing my point, you said the above. Which was the first interaction between the two of us on this thread. Which to me implied that you either thought I wouldn't understand because I was white or that I was not intelligent enough. Tell me how that was civil?

You're white???

Your being white had absolutely nothing to do with it and everything to do with your post I responded to .. go back and read where you tell me to "quit bitching".

This is a crucial and critical issue that is destroying African-American communities .. and you call it "bitching".

You don't understand for the very reasons you stated. You are disconnected from the tragedy .. but you've formed an opinion based on what? Shouldn't you first listen to people who are connected and knowledgeable about the issue before you take such a firm stand against it?

I'm black, do you think you're more sensitive to the issue and designation of "slaves" than I am? This is not to suggest that being black makes me any more intelligent then you are, but am I more sensitive to the holacaust than a jewish person would be? Am I more sensitive to birth than a woman would be?

I've read many of your posts and often I've agreed with you and have stated that I have. I have no problem with you taking a different position than I have and I have no problem defending or supporting anything I post. I do have a problem with unwarranted attacks.

Given that we often appear to be on the same side of the fence on other issues, I'm willing to apologize for anything I've said to you that offends you and explain to you why I believe these prisoners are slaves and why every American should be absolutely apalled and ashamed of what we've become.

 

[blackascoal]

Same here. I was raised in a society that largely assumed any black man arrested by the cops "must" have done something wrong. I'd be afraid of whether any subconcious bias I might have come into play.

This has become part of the American mind. Saying a black person did it makes it immediately believable.

Remember this ...

Awakening After Boston's Nightmare

Published: January 10, 1990

LEAD: The story leaped into the news, a suburban nightmare become suddenly, horribly flesh: a young middle-class couple, the wife eight months pregnant, are kidnapped while driving home from birthing class. The abductor, drug-crazed, remorselessly kills the wife and wounds the husband, who heroically guides the police to their car using his cellular phone.

The story leaped into the news, a suburban nightmare become suddenly, horribly flesh: a young middle-class couple, the wife eight months pregnant, are kidnapped while driving home from birthing class. The abductor, drug-crazed, remorselessly kills the wife and wounds the husband, who heroically guides the police to their car using his cellular phone.

The victims were white, the alleged assailant black. The Boston police issued an all-points bulletin: ''Approximately 30 years old, 6 feet tall and black.'' A suspect was brought in, identified and scrutinized in the Boston press, as shock and disgust registered nationwide.

As a young American of African descent, I found myself in a quandary: I was horrified by the crime, which seemed to signal a new level in urban ugliness, but was also dismayed by the ferocity of the furor the incident released, especially in Boston.

White Bostonians were outraged, some speaking as if this single event vindicated the city of Boston's documented public racism. Mayor Raymond Flynn ordered 100 extra police officers into Mission Hill, the neighborhood where the shootings occurred. Republican state legislators demanded reinstatement of the death penalty. Gov. Michael Dukakis and 800 others attended the victim's funeral. Her name was Carol Stuart. The baby died 17 days later. Black Bostonians were frightened and shocked but were locked in a paradox as the city assumed an atmosphere of tension that made all concerned suspicious of each other. ''Is this black man the one?'' ''Is that white person going to accuse me?'' Black schoolchildren in the neighborhood held a vigil against violence. And black adults wondered who, including themselves, was to blame.

Seventy miles up Interstate 95, I decided I should avoid Boston for a while. The dark side of my psyche said I was sufficiently ''6 foot, black and 30'' to attract police scrutiny (the description fits more black men than it doesn't); my common sense said it wasn't worth the stress.

Last week, Charles Stuart committed suicide - the result, the police said, of being identified as the chief suspect in the killing of his wife and child. There will be a continuing investigation involving accomplices, but the murder case is closed.

The Boston police tore through the black community like marauding vigillantes and terrorized the community.

Stuart knew that by blaming his crime on someone black, it would be believed.

This isn't an anomaly. It happens all the time .. as in the Central Park Jogger case. Prosecutors often rush to find a person of color to blame.

This happened recently in Atlanta ..

Atlanta Police Probe Killing of an 88 Year Old Woman

ATLANTA — The police chief has placed all eight members of a narcotics investigation team on leave after a confidential informant said they had asked him to lie during the investigation of the death of an 88-year-old woman, shot and killed by police officers during a drug raid last week.

Chief Richard Pennington said that the FBI would investigate the death of the woman, Kathryn Johnston, who was killed after she fired at three officers who breached the door of her small house, with its green shutters and a wheelchair ramp. The Georgia Bureau of Investigation is also examining the case.

The informant's claim fueled more outrage over Johnston's death, which had already prompted Pennington to announce a review of the Atlanta Police Department's policies on the use of no-knock warrants and confidential informants. Since the shooting, civil rights activists and community groups have demanded a federal investigation, saying excessive force was used.

In a news conference Monday, Pennington said that the officers involved and the informant had given contradictory accounts.

"There are many unanswered questions," he said. "But we must all exercise patience as we examine and re-examine every aspect of these tragic events."

The events leading to the death of Johnston, whose photograph in news reports showed her with a cane and a birthday crown, began with a warrant stating that an unnamed informant had bought two bags of crack cocaine from a man at the house, near Vine City. The warrant was known as a no-knock, giving the police the authority to burst through the door without warning in order to prevent the destruction of drugs.

But in an interview broadcast Monday by the local Fox affiliate, the informant, whose identity was concealed, said he had never been to the house in question and had not bought drugs there. Johnston's family has said that she lived alone.

"They were going to pay me just to cover it up," he said in the interview, arranged after he placed a call to one of the station's reporters on Thursday. "They called me immediately after the shooting to ask me, I mean to tell me, `This is what you need to do.' " He added that the officers told him explicitly that he was needed to protect their story.

Again, this is not an anomaly. Police plant drugs, weapons, and coerce "informants" to back them up all the time. The police also "found" a small amount of drugs in this woman's house, which was later proved also to be a lie.

This was an old woman who lived alone. The polce claim that she shot 3 officers Annie Oakley style before they murdered her has also proved to be a lie.

Shit like this happens all the time to African-Americans in this country .. yet many wonder why we don't trust shit that comes from the police.

 

[Damocles]

Didn't whatserface who drowned her kids blame it on a black man?

 

[doniston]

If you all dropped the name calling, the discussion would benefit.

With this I fully agree.

 

[Timshel]

No String... the APPLICATION and prosecution of the law is unjust. That does not make the law itself unjust.

Yeah, it looks I did not read your comments to fully. Sorry.

Your actual argument, that a law that is written in a way that does not discriminate, however, looks even weaker. Equality before the law is merely a part of a proper theory of justice not the sum and whole. An otherwise just law written to apply unequally is made unjust. But an unjust law cannot be made just by simply writing it in a way that makes it equal to all.