The Constitution protects Trumps tax returns

Why don't you quote the laws that specify that the government is supposed to use its power to overpower Americans who do not align with certain political ideology? When the government uses its power to overpower Americans via any means necessary, and for the purpose of forcing political gain, it violates his rights. Lefties do a fine job quoting ways to justify violating rights, but no lefty can quote laws that specify that the government MUST use its power to harm the opponents of lefties. Lefties will NEVER be able to see political warfare as "unreasonable searches and seizures," because they think that it is reasonable for this to happen to their political opponents.

Did the Supreme Court's 9-0 decision requiring Nixon to hand over the White House tapes violate his 4th Amendment rights?

Did the House Judiciary Committee's subpoena to the DOJ for document related to Hillary's emails violate her rights?

I am asking this to determine if you think they are all examples of violations of citizen's rights or if they are different.
 
Did the Supreme Court's 9-0 decision requiring Nixon to hand over the White House tapes violate his 4th Amendment rights?

Did the House Judiciary Committee's subpoena to the DOJ for document related to Hillary's emails violate her rights?

I am asking this to determine if you think they are all examples of violations of citizen's rights or if they are different.
actually, the tapes and the emails were government property.......Trump's tax returns are not......
 
Did the Supreme Court's 9-0 decision requiring Nixon to hand over the White House tapes violate his 4th Amendment rights?

There was probable cause there, which is not the same as the political cause that we are talking about here. The Senate Watergate Committee had more to go on than an empty handed Mueller witch hunt.

Did the House Judiciary Committee's subpoena to the DOJ for document related to Hillary's emails violate her rights?

Are you referring to emails about government business and classified information? Which document are you referring to?

I am asking this to determine if you think they are all examples of violations of citizen's rights or if they are different.

When I look at the 4th amendment, I see this:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

The probable cause thing sticks out to me, and it does not appear that politically motivated witch hunt searches fit the spirit of the 4th amendment. The last part about describing the article to be seized stands out as well. Keep in mind that lefties cannot describe what exactly it is that they are after in his returns, they just want to do the search to see if they can find something that they can use to do harm to their political opponent. They would like to get lucky and find something that they can use in a criminal case, but they need to conduct the search to see if there is any evidence that they can use for such a thing.
 
Fuck probable cause, you want to overpower Trump's 4th amendment rights.

4th amendment does not apply. There is no illegal search. It is perfectly legal. I suppose some of Trumps information is illegal and corrupt. Checking the executive is a responsibility and function of the house.
What you see? Whatever you think backs and protects the right and Trump. that is what you see. You see that in everything.
 
Hello Nordberg,

Due to the founders wishing not to have a despot run America, they were careful to establish checks and balances. The house is charged with keeping the others honest via their investigative power and the power to issue subpoenas. This is simply the house doing their job as the constitution set up. They have the power to obtain anyone's taxes. You can figure out that cheaters will fight to the death to hide theirs. But in the interest of honesty and balance, the house has been given the power to check, That is what is happening. Legal, lawful and acting within their powers.
Truth is rightys also think Trump is a crook and they want him to escape justice. America would be better served by Trumpy's taxes being in the public domain. We would all have proof of what we expect is a fact, Trump is a cheater. Rightys are searching for ways to excuse Trump. The 4th amendment does not work. The house has the power.

The House may have the power but they have no way to enforce it. What if the IRS just never turns over the documents? You know he ordered them not to.

"Mick Mulvaney, the president’s acting chief of staff, said over the weekend that Democrats would “never” obtain the president’s taxes and called their efforts “a political hit job.”"

You know exactly what Trump does in situations like this. He whips out the lawyers and they go to work 'fixing it.' Which means is gets tied up in court battles and could end up in the SCOTUS. Meanwhile Trump runs around using the whole thing as propaganda fuel and playing the victim card as he makes the Dems out to look like witch hunters. Saying they're too powerful, that they could do this to anybody for political reasons. Saying that the law is unconstitutional. This kind of thing really gets fought in the media. The Dems need to lean heavy on asking what Trump is covering up. What's he hiding? And: "Checks and balances." They would also do very well to come up with very sold reasons. What do they suspect and why? They don't have to give a reason, but if they do and they have good reasons, then it comes across better.
 
Hello Flash,

I don't consider that as a check and balance. The power to investigate derives from their need to gather information for the purpose of legislating (although it is often political). Checks and balances refers to one branch checking the power of the other two branches. Investigating for the purpose of legislating comes from their exclusive power to legislate.

If Trump has violated any tax laws, that should be the job of the IRS and executive branch to investigate and prosecute. So far Congress has no reason to believe there are any tax violations and simply want to investigate for political purposes. It does not violate his 4th amendment rights and no probable cause is needed, but has nothing to do with checking tax cheaters lacking any evidence that any exists. It is just for people hoping they will find something negative and doing it because they can. Like dumping illegals in sanctuary cities, it is just being petty.

Where did all that stuff come from?

Representative Neal didn't say that. He didn't say it was for political reasons. He didn't give a reason for making the request. He doesn't have to.

Maybe he's got a good reason but he's not saying. Maybe it's sensitive information. We don't know everything that's going on. We don't know what he knows.
 
Hello Flash,



Where did all that stuff come from?

Representative Neal didn't say that. He didn't say it was for political reasons. He didn't give a reason for making the request. He doesn't have to.

Maybe he's got a good reason but he's not saying. Maybe it's sensitive information. We don't know everything that's going on. We don't know what he knows.

House Ways and Means has a function is to make sure the executive branch is honest. Getting Trump's taxes is just a way to do the job. It is necessary. Trump should be an adult and hand them over.
 
Hello Flash,



Where did all that stuff come from?

Representative Neal didn't say that. He didn't say it was for political reasons. He didn't give a reason for making the request. He doesn't have to.

Maybe he's got a good reason but he's not saying. Maybe it's sensitive information. We don't know everything that's going on. We don't know what he knows.

I was responding to Nordberg's post #154.
 
House Ways and Means has a function is to make sure the executive branch is honest. Getting Trump's taxes is just a way to do the job. It is necessary. Trump should be an adult and hand them over.

I don't think Ways & Means has that function. If they want to legislate to make it harder to cheat that derives from their power to legislate--it is not a check.

Can you tell if somebody cheated by looking at their tax return? Or, do you have to investigate to make sure the reported income, deductions, etc. are all valid? If so, that should have also been investigated for every other president.
 
Hello Nordberg,

House Ways and Means has a function is to make sure the executive branch is honest. Getting Trump's taxes is just a way to do the job. It is necessary. Trump should be an adult and hand them over.

Don't hold your breath. That's not how Trump rolls. He's in his element now. He resists authority. Nobody tells him what to do. He's the Donald, the rich and powerful. He'll fight it tooth and nail, drag it up to the SCOTUS. The real question is who makes more political hay out of the media spin on it. If Dems don't challenge Trump in the media then Trump is going to control the message and own it. None of the prominent Dems will touch it because they are all running for President and they don't want to make it political. Might be good if AOC enters a twitter battle with Trump. That could be good. They would blow a circuit breaker at that. She should jump right into the middle of it and demand to know what he is hiding and why he lied when he said he would turn over his taxes. That would rattle the Trump fans.
 
The Constitution says he needs to be born an American citizen, so the document needs to be vetted to verify this. It is not a violation of the Constitution to properly vet candidates, especially when candidates are not even required to run for office.

How do you know Obama was not vetted? Because Trump rode that hate train for 5 years? But if it is a necessary requirement for president, what makes you think every president has not been checked for all eligibility requirements? Therefore Obama was proven to be a citizen while Daffy was ululating about his birth. Typical Trump shit. Typical right wing crap.
 
Wrong and 45 is no exception to the rule when it comes to being subjected to demands placed on him by his supervisor Congress, although 45 is not a legitimate president and thinks he is the dictator which is another area where he has become under contempt of Congress.

"Contempt of Congress is the act of obstructing the work of the United States Congress or one of its committees. Historically, the bribery of a U.S. Senator or U.S. Representative was considered contempt of Congress. In modern times, contempt of Congress has generally applied to the refusal to comply with a subpoena issued by a Congressional committee or subcommittee—usually seeking to compel either testimony or the production of requested documents. "

Congress Really Can Demand, And Get, Trump's Tax Returns. Here's How

Committee Access Provision
rarely been invoked, but here's how it would work:
For the party in control of the House or Senate, making the request is easy. It would come from the chair of the House Ways and Means Committee (the House panel that writes tax law), Senate Finance Committee or Joint Committee on Taxation. Democrats have been badgering the Republican chairs of those panels to act since February 2017 without success.
Once a request is made, no floor action is necessary. The request would go to Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin, who oversees the IRS — not to the taxpayer in the Oval Office, who would officially be out of the loop. Yin said the 1924 law "gave the tax committees the unqualified right to request the tax returns of any taxpayer."
What would happen next is uncharted territory. Based on recent events, Trump might deploy Justice Department lawyers, and perhaps private lawyers, to fight the request in court. The process might resemble the not-infrequent legal battles over congressional subpoenas for executive branch documents. But the committee access provision has never been before a federal judge.
Were Congress to get access to Trump's returns, it would be easy for lawmakers to disclose the information, despite various privacy protections that exist for taxpayers. The chair or committee with Trump's tax returns could submit them to the full House or Senate if there's a legitimate legislative purpose. At that point, the returns would very likely quickly become available for the public to see on the Internet. "

If I were so much of a 45 kisser who cares nothing for no one, especially his devoted cult followers, I would basically cosign my soul to hell forever.

source: Wikipedia; npr .org
 
Wrong and 45 is no exception to the rule when it comes to being subjected to demands placed on him by his supervisor Congress, although 45 is not a legitimate president and thinks he is the dictator which is another area where he has become under contempt of Congress.

"Contempt of Congress is the act of obstructing the work of the United States Congress or one of its committees. Historically, the bribery of a U.S. Senator or U.S. Representative was considered contempt of Congress. In modern times, contempt of Congress has generally applied to the refusal to comply with a subpoena issued by a Congressional committee or subcommittee—usually seeking to compel either testimony or the production of requested documents. "

Congress Really Can Demand, And Get, Trump's Tax Returns. Here's How

Committee Access Provision
rarely been invoked, but here's how it would work:
For the party in control of the House or Senate, making the request is easy. It would come from the chair of the House Ways and Means Committee (the House panel that writes tax law), Senate Finance Committee or Joint Committee on Taxation. Democrats have been badgering the Republican chairs of those panels to act since February 2017 without success.
Once a request is made, no floor action is necessary. The request would go to Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin, who oversees the IRS — not to the taxpayer in the Oval Office, who would officially be out of the loop. Yin said the 1924 law "gave the tax committees the unqualified right to request the tax returns of any taxpayer."
What would happen next is uncharted territory. Based on recent events, Trump might deploy Justice Department lawyers, and perhaps private lawyers, to fight the request in court. The process might resemble the not-infrequent legal battles over congressional subpoenas for executive branch documents. But the committee access provision has never been before a federal judge.
Were Congress to get access to Trump's returns, it would be easy for lawmakers to disclose the information, despite various privacy protections that exist for taxpayers. The chair or committee with Trump's tax returns could submit them to the full House or Senate if there's a legitimate legislative purpose. At that point, the returns would very likely quickly become available for the public to see on the Internet. "

If I were so much of a 45 kisser who cares nothing for no one, especially his devoted cult followers, I would basically cosign my soul to hell forever.

source: Wikipedia; npr .org

I see no basis for going to court. The IRS has to provide requested taxes. Ways and Means does not have to sue to get them. The only legal problems arie if the IRS refuses to do their job . Then Rettig ,the boss ,is subject to removal from his position, a 10 K fine and up to 5 years in jail. Is he willing to risk that to protect Trump from paying for his crimes?
 
Hello Flash,



Where did all that stuff come from?

Representative Neal didn't say that. He didn't say it was for political reasons. He didn't give a reason for making the request. He doesn't have to.

Maybe he's got a good reason but he's not saying. Maybe it's sensitive information. We don't know everything that's going on. We don't know what he knows.

Dumb dumb
Why does the democrat controlled house want Trump tax records. Is there evidence he didn’t pay his taxes. Is the house going to audit his records for the IRS. Don’t you think he his been audited in the past.
This is a fishing expedition. They are more concerned about getting Trump than running the country.

As a liberal you should be all concerned about individual rights. If it were anyone else but Trump you would cry foul.
 
I see no basis for going to court. The IRS has to provide requested taxes. Ways and Means does not have to sue to get them. The only legal problems arie if the IRS refuses to do their job . Then Rettig ,the boss ,is subject to removal from his position, a 10 K fine and up to 5 years in jail. Is he willing to risk that to protect Trump from paying for his crimes?


Nordick

Do you have a glass ball. What crimes would that be.

Let’s pretend you are not a fuckin loser but a very successful businessman. Let’s also pretend there is no evidence you did anything illegal to reach your wealth and power. Let’s also say you made enemies who are now politicians. Those politicians are going to investigate you without evidence of wrongdoing to simply try and bring you down. I feel sorry for you and others who feel this is just. What type of country do you want to live in. Your hatred for someone is so overwhelming it doesn’t matter about his rights. It’s simply search and destroy like the liberals have done to so many others they hate.

Where is the ACLU?
 
“The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.” (Amendment 4, United States Constitution)

Donald Trump has Zero obligation to open his tax returns to the public or the Congress regardless of any law written by the Congress unless the Congress or any person can show “probable cause” that Donald Trump has committed a crime and that his tax returns can deliver relevant evidence thereto said crime.

Every honest American should know that the Democrat controlled House of the Congress is simply on another witch hunt to pin any kind of crime or embarrassment on DonaldTrump. That doesn’t meet probable cause of a crime. If The Congress committee insist on getting Trump’s tax returns, I think they’re in for a court fight that will last for months if not years and end up in the Right dominated Supreme Court, and never get to see Trump’s taxes. Just sayin!!!


Did he not place himself under obligation when he said he would release his tax returns?
 
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