ok...i'll wait to the end then to see what he is talking about
OK, there debate is over and now I can speak more fully.
SM clearly won the opening statement. He articulated a clear point of view, defended it well with clearly sited references. His opening statement was extremely well written.
But he made a big mistake in his logic in correlating the definition he used for mentall illness with homosexuality being a mental illness and USF nailed him on it in his rebuttal.
USF completely undermined SM's position when he stated that SM's definition and logic would also mean that those who have sex but are unable to procreate would be mentally ill or those who can procreate but chose not to and have sex would be mentally ill. OUCH!!!
Can you really seriously consider that those people would be mentally ill but how could they then not be as the very same definition and logic SM used would also apply to them?
You could also say, using SM's logic, that any hetero couple who has anal sex is mentally ill. It has nothing to do with reproduction and would not be "normal" by SM's definition. Do you really think that hetero couples who have anal sex are mentally ill? If the answer is no, then why would gay men be any different? You could also make the same argument about oral sex or masturbation, that anyone who paraticipated in these are mentally ill, and just like homosexuality, that too has been claimed in the past.
SM made the same mistake here that Skidmark made in his opening statement and USF's comment right there was a crushing rebuttal to SM's argument.
I also give the question/answer portion to USF. SM didn't even ask a question about the topic. He attacked USF's research on the topic, that's pretty close to an ad hom and from a debate standpoint is not only irrelevent but poor form, to make matters worse, he didn't actually answer USF's question.
On the other side, USF asked a tough question, for which he really didn't get a direct answer from his opponent. In addition USF responded directly to SM's question and used that as a sprngboard to further his attack on SM's postion. His answer to SM's question was definately USF's best post.
On that basis I score it a win for USF 2 pts to 1.