The Trinity

Cypress said:
"Some Protestants" also claim Catholics aren't Christians.
Click to expand...

That is done in an insulting manner. Not related to this topic.

I'm not interested in what "some Baptists" say.
Click to expand...

Unless you are a Baptist you really don't get an opinion on this.

The link I provided (Encyclopedia Britannica) is also far superior in credibility than the link given here (wicked local.com)
Click to expand...

I was merely noting what PmP was apparently incapable of explaining. There is a belief in some parts of the Baptist church (not just PMP) that Baptists are not truly "Protestants" because of how they split and when they split.

Why is it necessary to tell Baptists what they believe?

Sometimes that is how one learns.
 
domer76 said:
I agree with you on Noah or Jonah, but highly disagree on the Virgin birth. I attended Notre Dame and many of those fuckers are rabidly and devoutly bound to that belief. The name is “Our Mother” and the frikkin’ administration building has her golden statue on top. They believe with the entirety of their hearts, their minds, to the depths of their being. And there’s more than a few of them and there are many other Catholic institutions more conservative than ND. Worldwide, as well.
Click to expand...

You're right, the myth of the Virgin Mary has a strong historical precedent.

I don't think it matters in the actual routine practice of Christianity by the laity. I've never read anywhere that belief in the virgin birth is a holy sacrament, or is supposed to be incorporated somehow into living a Christian life.
 
Cypress said:
You're right, the myth of the Virgin Mary has a strong historical precedent.

I don't think it matters in the actual routine practice of Christianity by the laity. I've never read anywhere that belief in the virgin birth is a holy sacrament, or is supposed to be incorporated somehow into living a Christian life.
Click to expand...

Might want to talk to some Catholics about how unimportant it is.
 
Obtenebrator said:
Might want to talk to some Catholics about how unimportant it is.
Click to expand...

It's not one of the holy sacraments, aka it's not determinative on whether you receive grace


The NT suggests Mary got pregnant outside of conjugal relations with Joseph. The Talmud seems to possibly
reflect an oral tradition that Mary was impregnated by a Roman soldier.

Pregnancy outside of marriage would have been a scandal in the religious communities of Galilee. The virgin birth narrative might have been a way to sweep this under the rug
 
Cypress said:
It's not one of the holy sacraments, aka it's not determinative on whether you receive grace
Click to expand...

Agreed. Doesn't change the fact of a serious Marian cult within Catholicism that is VERY much interested in this topic.

Regardless of whether it is a sacrament or not, Mary is an object of veneration and even prayers. EVERY SINGLE CATHOLIC prays the Rosary which includes the Ave Maria. So to dismiss the Marian focus of worship in the faith is to do it grave injustice for the believers.
 
Obtenebrator said:
Agreed. Doesn't change the fact of a serious Marian cult within Catholicism that is VERY much interested in this topic.

Regardless of whether it is a sacrament or not, Mary is an object of veneration and even prayers. EVERY SINGLE CATHOLIC prays the Rosary which includes the Ave Maria. So to dismiss the Marian focus of worship in the faith is to do it grave injustice for the believers.
Click to expand...

Look, there's a lot of bullshit and mythology in all the world's religions.

If we are demanding that Christianity foresake it's ancient stories and myths, we should be prepared to demand Judaism, Islam, and Bhuddism do the same.

I personally don't see it as a great evil that human cultures maintain tradition and myth, as long as it doesn't interfere with technology and science.

Humans are not perfect rational entities, only capable of formal logic and mathmatical calculation. Myth and ritual is part of what it means to be human
 
Cypress said:
It's not one of the holy sacraments, aka it's not determinative on whether you receive grace


The NT suggests Mary got pregnant outside of conjugal relations with Joseph. The Talmud seems to possibly
reflect an oral tradition that Mary was impregnated by a Roman soldier.

Pregnancy outside of marriage would have been a scandal in the religious communities of Galilee. The virgin birth narrative might have been a way to sweep this under the rug
Click to expand...
I think the Virgin Mary was a substitution for the Goddesses. It was away to appease the pagans who wanted a female figure to emulate.
 
Cypress said:
Look, there's a lot of bullshit and mythology in all the world's religions.

If we are demanding that Christianity foresake it's ancient stories and myths, we should be prepared to demand Judaism, Islam, and Bhuddism do the same.

I personally don't see it as a great evil that human cultures maintain tradition and myth, as long as it doesn't interfere with technology and science.

Humans are not perfect rational entities, only capable of formal logic and mathmatical calculation. Myth and ritual is part of what it means to be human
Click to expand...
Well said and agreed.

Human beings seem to be composed of the physical, the mental and the spiritual. Religions, no matter how flawed, are a reflection of the spiritual. As previously discussed, all cultures possess some form of spirituality.
 
Phantasmal said:
I think the Virgin Mary was a substitution for the Goddesses. It was away to appease the pagans who wanted a female figure to emulate.
Click to expand...

That seems like a reasonable hypothesis. You may well be right.

My theory is that if Mary got pregnant outside of marital relations, that's not a something first century Christian writers could ignore. It's too scandalous, and couldn't be ignored because there were still people in the first century who would have been aware of Mary or oral traditions surrounding her. The virgin birth could have been a perfect way to keep the basic elements of the story intact, while sweeping the scandalous parts under the rug
 
Doc Dutch said:
Well said and agreed.

Human beings seem to be composed of the physical, the mental and the spiritual. Religions, no matter how flawed, are a reflection of the spiritual. As previously discussed, all cultures possess some form of spirituality.
Click to expand...

Catholic priests have made landmark discoveries in genetics and astronomy. Devout Muslims have won Nobel prizes in physics.

I don't see the need to demand people disavow the ancient stories of their religious traditions, when they seem perfectly capable of separating their religion from their scientific or technical interests.
 
Phantasmal said:
I think the Virgin Mary was a substitution for the Goddesses. It was away to appease the pagans who wanted a female figure to emulate.
Click to expand...

Very likely. The Greeks and Romans at the time had numerous temples dedicated to their various goddesses. The European and Scandinavian pagans worshiped goddesses too.
 
Cypress said:
Look, there's a lot of bullshit and mythology in all the world's religions.

If we are demanding that Christianity foresake it's ancient stories and myths, we should be prepared to demand Judaism, Islam, and Bhuddism do the same.

I personally don't see it as a great evil that human cultures maintain tradition and myth, as long as it doesn't interfere with technology and science.

Humans are not perfect rational entities, only capable of formal logic and mathmatical calculation. Myth and ritual is part of what it means to be human
Click to expand...

Yes and we can both agree that Mary is quite important to Catholics.
 
Cypress said:
Catholic priests have made landmark discoveries in genetics and astronomy. Devout Muslims have won Nobel prizes in physics.

I don't see the need to demand people disavow the ancient stories of their religious traditions, when they seem perfectly capable of separating their religion from their scientific or technical interests.
Click to expand...
I think of the Jesuits and all their scientific discoveries. Their goal is to find God in all things.
 
Phantasmal said:
I think of the Jesuits and all their scientific discoveries. Their goal is to find God in all things.
Click to expand...

Well, that’s pretty much what Spinoza believed. God = the universe. Everywhere. In all things. But, just not a personal, interactive god that Christianity requires.
 
Phantasmal said:
I think of the Jesuits and all their scientific discoveries. Their goal is to find God in all things.
Click to expand...

That's a great point. At one time, and not that long ago, the Jesuits were the scientific experts of the church, and they ran the best universities in Europe.

If God is found in the natural laws of the universe, one can see the appeal of science to Jesuit scholars and Muslim Nobel laureates.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top