The Trinity
- Thread starter domer76
- Start date
You're right, a lot of what is written in the Gospels have theological reasons. They are not historical narratives.
I like the virgin birth story. Not only is there some evidence that there was no prophecy of a virgin birth (the word in Isaiah is almah which can mean a young unmarried woman. But to make it more confusing the Gospels not only give mutually exclusive diffferent genealogies but they do so from Joseph's point of view as if Jesus was the actual physical child of Joseph and hence David's lineage.
One need only see a few examples of this to see that the gospels were written for theological and not necessarily factual reasons.
Just another example of man's fingerprints all over the god concept.
Dutch Uncle
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Duh. Isn't that what Cypress said? The books were geared to the neophyte Christian religion and the words of Jesus.
I just find it interesting that the single most important theological concept in the entirety of the Western world cannot be written about factually. I could understand if the gospel writers were simply flouncing about using metaphysical terms but giving someone's genealogy feels like it could and should be done factually to make the point.
Giving someone's BIRTHPLACE cannot really be considered a "theological" topic. It's not even "metaphorical". It's a fact. And if facts are wrong what's to say the theology is right?
Clearly the writers felt it was NECESSARY to link Jesus directly through blood to David. Fine. But that butts up against the idea that Jesus was NOT the physical son of Joseph. That there is no blood line to Jesus if Jesus was begot of God.
That's probably where the problems start. And are just one of many examples.
Dutch Uncle
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What I find fascinating is that most atheists bitch and moan about Christians, but are often completely silent about Buddhists, Jews, Muslims, African religions, etc. IMO, it's because they're immature little shits who resented going to church as a child, but I could be wrong.
What are your thoughts on the disparity, Obi? Or do you believe the texts of other religions are factual?
I'm not bitching and moaning. Just discussing theology.
I find all religions to be equally unreal. I discuss Christianity because I know it. I don't discuss Judaism because I wasn't trained in anything related to Judaism. I don't discuss Islam because I'm not a muslim. I don't believe either one.
Atheists like myself actually LIKED going to church. Quite a bit. It was a great place for me. I am sad the only atheists many people think they know are cartoons.
Dutch Uncle
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Disagreed as proved by your harping on the subject.
Good. Tell me some things you hate about Jews, Muslims and Buddhists. I'm curious to see how they match against your dislike of Christians.
Ahh, so you are clueless about other religions even though, as you claim, you know about Christians, but not the other Abrahamic religions. Interesting.
I used to be an atheist, but I outgrew it by college. I'm not religious, but believe there is more to existence than what is in front of my nose. The fact most human beings have spiritual beliefs and that actual atheists are rare indicates atheists are abbie normals. They're missing something the other 96%ish of human beings possess.
I think anyone genuinely interested in religion is going to make a modest effort to learn about Asian religions and the other Abrahamic religions.
Just searching for weak points in the bible seems like a strategy to debate christians on the internet.
I would also say at least 80 percent of complaints about Christianity revolve around things written in the Old Testament. The Old Testament, aka TaNaKh is Jewish scripture, and I think one should make an effort to understand the Jewish interpretation of TaNaKh by reading the Talmud, or reading Jewish scholars.
BidenPresident
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And you're agnostic and write about religion every day.
That’s understandable in those days. But, this is the 21st century and we know that prophecy is nothing more than superstition. Why the need to hang on to those myths today?
And that’s why so many “fixes” had to be made in the theology after the fact.
Dutch Uncle
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Agreed. Researching other religions seems to be a logical means of not only seeking greater understanding of Christianity, both the positives and the negatives. An example would be that Christianity, as spoken by Jesus, is closer to Buddhism, than either Judaism or Islam.
Agreed; another logical reason to educate oneself.
Agreed here too. Specifically, how American Evangelicals and Baptists apply their religion. Their attacks on gays and gay marriage were almost exclusively cherry-picked from the OT.
Here’s the deal for me, doc. I don’t live in a country where there are significant numbers of those others. I wasn’t fed Mohammed or Passover as a child. I was fed Baby Jesus and Christmas plays, the Easter story, and we recited the Lord’s Prayer. They handed out miniature Bibles. I still have one.
That’s the difference
BidenPresident
Verified User
Amazing this has to be explained. Like asking why Americans talk about George Washington rather than Haile Selassie.
I didn't start this thread. Christianity is as important to western civilization as capitalism and industrial revolution. You can't understand western civilization or Eastern civilization without understanding religion.
The problem with Protestant fundamentalism is the belief in biblical literalism and inerrancy.
For most christians outside the evangelical tradition, I don't think details about whether Jesus was born in Bethlehem, or discrepancies between the gospels really matter that much. It might matter to theologians. But for the laity, the important thing about Christianity is a certain way living life, a participation in a certain community and ritual, and ideally a certain kind of experience with the devine.
Most of the fake christians on JPP either don't clear the bar, or simply fail to understand their own religion
BidenPresident
Verified User
You always post that. It is not true.
Based on a quick gander at my profile, not one of the last 50 threads I authored were specifically about religion.
Are you really going to to get mad at me when other people start threads about religion?
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
So, like the MAGAts, you only see what's in your yard, not the world at large. Got it. Thanks for the insight, domer.
In 1989, I'd already experienced four deployments; two in WestPac, one to the Med and the ME, one around Cape Horn from Philly to San Diego. In the previous 10 years, I'd gained a foundation of knowledge of foreign cultures, both friendly and hostile. While on shore duty for two years, I elected to attend night classes at Hurlburt AFB for a MS in International Relations. The majority of the classes were with the USSR and the Warsaw Pac, but the cracks were already showing in the Soviet empire. Desiring to break out of the pack, I focused on the two areas where I thought the next conflicts would be: South America and the Middle East. I learned a lot about the Spanish version of colonialism versus the Northern Euro version and about Islam.
When reading atheists whining about Christianity, I know most of them are speaking from ignorance. All they know is Christianity and they have no desire to know anything different. That's the difference, domer.