it's not a fact. stop abusing what facts are, especially in this thread. facts are indisputable.
APP - The Well Behaved Zimmerman TRIAL Thread
- Thread starter BRUTALITOPS
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it's not a fact. stop abusing what facts are, especially in this thread. facts are indisputable.
See the word opinion?
yes, i am speaking generally, not to you in particular.
Ummm...no. However, I've never taken a Criminal Defense class and have been aware of the SYG law for years. Perhaps we could say it was a "contradiction"?
OPINION: In a trial setting, all evidence is presented as fact. Otherwise it will be challenged and, if not fact, will be removed. If true, the statement will be sustained and presented as fact.
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You didn't hear it; because Howard is a liar.
i am just saying, for the purpose of this thread, to keep facts to that which neither side will dispute (obviously in good faith), and leave everything else to opinion/analysis
not much to really talk about today, I consider most of it to be boiler plate.
opinion: I think carter (the professor) ended up working well for the defense. He laid out a compelling idea of how self defense qualifies, when asked "you wouldn't wait until you are almost dead to defend yourself, would you?" carter responds "i don't think I would reccomend that, no." getting a laugh from the court room.
the DNA expert, not really sure where the State was going with it... maybe they'll try to tie it together in closing. He said trayvons DNA wasn't on the grip, though zimmerman never said he grabbed the grip of the gun... other than that they pointed out various spots of blood
Here is Gorgone on Cross:
does it make sense defendant would fear they were facing great bodily harm?
that is correct
---
(something about environmental factors ruining the samples)
yes, weather elements can degrade DNA samples.
--
hard surface of gun easily dna can easily be wiped off?
correct, no medium for skin cells to soak into it
there was DNA on gun slide, but couldn't determine who?
correct, I can't tell. Wasn't able to exclude either individual on gun slide
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Anything that is wet should be dried down. Moisture can degrade the DNA, Gorgone says.
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"both items were stored wet when I opened the package"
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you smelled ammonia or mold On the hoodie?
correct
would you say the items were at risk of degradation due to packaging?
correct
opinion: I think carter (the professor) ended up working well for the defense. He laid out a compelling idea of how self defense qualifies, when asked "you wouldn't wait until you are almost dead to defend yourself, would you?" carter responds "i don't think I would reccomend that, no." getting a laugh from the court room.
the DNA expert, not really sure where the State was going with it... maybe they'll try to tie it together in closing. He said trayvons DNA wasn't on the grip, though zimmerman never said he grabbed the grip of the gun... other than that they pointed out various spots of blood
Here is Gorgone on Cross:
does it make sense defendant would fear they were facing great bodily harm?
that is correct
---
(something about environmental factors ruining the samples)
yes, weather elements can degrade DNA samples.
--
hard surface of gun easily dna can easily be wiped off?
correct, no medium for skin cells to soak into it
there was DNA on gun slide, but couldn't determine who?
correct, I can't tell. Wasn't able to exclude either individual on gun slide
--------------------------------
Anything that is wet should be dried down. Moisture can degrade the DNA, Gorgone says.
--------------------------------
"both items were stored wet when I opened the package"
--------------------------------
you smelled ammonia or mold On the hoodie?
correct
would you say the items were at risk of degradation due to packaging?
correct
opinion: I think it is patently obvious there is no way in HELL state is getting a 2nd degree conviction, and that zimmerman was massively overcharged (dont think he should have been charged at all but I digress). As a matter of legalities (i'll put aside all moral arguments for the moment) you need to be on crack to say there is no reasonable doubt here. I think judge may even strike it completely. And if anyone wants to do a 3 month Ban bet with me I am 100% down. Just throwing that out there. Don't really wanna do the bet with rana though cause if she loses darla will leave 
The only thing that has me worried in this case is that the overcharge is on purpose in order to illicit a sympathy charge of manslaughter, from a jury thinking he might get 3-7 years or something as a compromise. The odd thing is though, a manslaughter conviction in this circumstance could be worse than a 2nd degree murder conviction. Killing someone under 18 doubles the maximum sentence from 15 years to 30, so instead of being convicted of 2nd degree and getting 25 years+ (with possibly paroling after 25), he could just get a 30 year max sentence.
The only thing that has me worried in this case is that the overcharge is on purpose in order to illicit a sympathy charge of manslaughter, from a jury thinking he might get 3-7 years or something as a compromise. The odd thing is though, a manslaughter conviction in this circumstance could be worse than a 2nd degree murder conviction. Killing someone under 18 doubles the maximum sentence from 15 years to 30, so instead of being convicted of 2nd degree and getting 25 years+ (with possibly paroling after 25), he could just get a 30 year max sentence.
opinion: I think it is patently obvious there is no way in HELL state is getting a 2nd degree conviction, and that zimmerman was massively overcharged (dont think he should have been charged at all but I digress). As a matter of legalities (i'll put aside all moral arguments for the moment) you need to be on crack to say there is no reasonable doubt here. I think judge may even strike it completely. And if anyone wants to do a 3 month Ban bet with me I am 100% down. Just throwing that out there. Don't really wanna do the bet with rana though cause if she loses darla will leave
The only thing that has me worried in this case is that the overcharge is on purpose in order to illicit a sympathy charge of manslaughter, from a jury thinking he might get 3-7 years or something as a compromise. The odd thing is though, a manslaughter conviction in this circumstance could be worse than a 2nd degree murder conviction. Killing someone under 18 doubles the maximum sentence from 15 years to 30, so instead of being convicted of 2nd degree and getting 25 years+ (with possibly paroling after 25), he could just get a 30 year max sentence.
Opinion:
I wouldn't make a bet, I have bad gambling karma, plus, I would concede they aimed too high on the charges, no fight with me there.
holy balls we finally agree on something pertaining to this case O_O
rana what has lead you to that conclusion if you don't mind me asking? Just the totality of stuff? Anything in particular?
Opinion
They haven't been prepared for the cross examination of their own witnesses, they came out swinging and now they aren't being effective.
They don't stresse their points, maybe they are hoping for reverse effect when the defense puts on their case.
Maybe they are hoping for a great summation.
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totally needed a vacation from all the zimmerman stuff.
Fact: True.
Bao: no one knows TM autopsy better than me.
But you don't remember anything
right, I don't remember
But you don't remember anything
right, I don't remember
Fact: Defense rests.
Fact: Judge denies a defense request for acquittal.
Fact: Both mothers identify screamer as their son.
Fact: Martin was alive for 1 - 10 minutes after being shot.
Fact: Zimmerman testified he spreed Martin's arms apart after he shot him. Testimony revealed Martin's arms were under his chest.
Bonus pic:
Conjecture: Was Zimmerman's mother speaking Spanish to relay with the sole hispanic juror?
Fact: Judge denies a defense request for acquittal.
Fact: Both mothers identify screamer as their son.
Fact: Martin was alive for 1 - 10 minutes after being shot.
Fact: Zimmerman testified he spreed Martin's arms apart after he shot him. Testimony revealed Martin's arms were under his chest.
Bonus pic:
Conjecture: Was Zimmerman's mother speaking Spanish to relay with the sole hispanic juror?
do we know the demographic makeup of the jury?
opinion: strategically I think state should have closed with the mother, not the doctor. that doctor was just all over the place, there is no way the jury finds him credible. that was just dumb.