Their name is Legion

[Cypress]

I view 'Reality' as here and now. Based on what our senses tell us. So, I respect the 'religions' of the Past, they had a place in that time era, but today, no longer meet the needs of the community.
Like Zeus and the Olympians, the stories are fun and interesting.

No one supports 'Kill the Infidels', which is part of all the Religions, proving THEIR God is 'the Real God'.

Any chance God really did give the Hebrews a Land Title? How about God using his finger to write on a clay tablet, you buying that? Do you support Moses ordering a man to be killed for 'picking up sticks on the Sabbath'?

You mentioned the 'Dead Sea Scrolls'. One thing they found was the diversity of Jewish sects. Like the Essenes and their disdain for the Jerusalem Authorities. So, like these Churches in America, there's a lot of 'Interpretation' going on.

Cypress: "So, if I am understanding your post, your derision of the entire Christian faith is strictly based on politics, not on any consistent and principled philosophical context."
Jack: No. I've discounted the 'Man-God' claim. And, like Jefferson, I've dismissed all the 'Magic Stuff'. My rejection of 'Christianity' is that it is --->a Slave Religion.

It's promotion is to keep the Worker Drones in check. Promising them 'The First Shall Be Last and the Last Shall Be First'. The 'Big Payoff' ... is in the NEXT Life, not this one. It's a perfect devise to keep those in Power ... in Power.

'Turn the other cheek' and 'Forgive your Trespassers' is not my Philosophy. Did the US 'Turn the other cheek' and 'Forgive it's Trespassers' when Bin Laden knocked 2 buildings down and killed 3,000 Americans?

You seem to be basing your expertise on Christianity based on a few snippets of translated text from the New Testament, and some vague and obviously one sided and caricatured historical events.

I have spent a decade trying to study Christianity, Hinduism, Daoism, and Buddhism and I still feel like I have only the most rudimentary knowledge of the history, theology, and rich tapestry of interpretations and experiences of those faith traditions.


I do not think there is an old guy in white robes floating in the clouds.

But I also reject a strictly materialistic, reductionist view of reality and human experience. I do not think we are simply a collection of quarks and electrons.

I am perfectly open to considering that there is a higher reality, an ultimate truth, a God, a Brahman a Dao, or any other name humans want to put on it. I am not dogmatic about the details, but I reject your notion that I am nothing but quarks and electrons held together by electromagnetism and the nuclear forces. That kind of strict materialism strikes me as cynical and nihilistic.

 

[Jack]

You seem to be basing your expertise on Christianity based on a few snippets of translated text from the New Testament, and some vague and obviously one sided and caricatured historical events.

I have spent a decade trying to study Christianity, Hinduism, Daoism, and Buddhism and I still feel like I have only the most rudimentary knowledge of the history, theology, and rich tapestry of interpretations and experiences of those faith traditions.


I do not think there is an old guy in white robes floating in the clouds.

But I also reject a strictly materialistic, reductionist view of reality and human experience. I do not think we are simply a collection of quarks and electrons.

I am perfectly open to considering that there is a higher reality, an ultimate truth, a God, a Brahman a Dao, or any other name humans want to put on it. I am not dogmatic about the details, but I reject your notion that I am nothing but quarks and electrons held together by electromagnetism and the nuclear forces. That kind of strict materialism strikes me as cynical and nihilistic.

I think I've made it clear on more than one occasion what my view is.

'Religion' is something from the Past. When people thought the Earth was the Center of the Universe. There were hundreds of Religions, all around the World, each telling a Story of how everything came to be.
Primitive. So ... interesting to Study ... as Ancient Myths.

'Christianity' is something I'm a little more familiar with since I grew up in America where that is the main religion. As I've said before, my view ... Christianity is a Slave Religion. I don't subscribe to it's Philosophy. I won't teach it to my children. I will not support it.

I have NO PROBLEM with you embracing whatever you feel is 'REAL'. I like diversity of thought.

Cypress: "That kind of strict materialism strikes me as cynical and nihilistic."
Jack: I told you I watched NOVA the other day. It told the story of the last suns to survive in the Universe would be the Red Dwarfs, and after the last one went extinct, the Universe would become dark and cold. They said in about a trillion years. THEN ... I watched NOVA again last night and they talked about Galaxies, the Milky Way and Andromeda. They said the two were pulling each other towards each other, and eventually they would collide. And maybe Humans would again re-appear? This they said was 4.5 billion years from now. So I'm becoming reluctant to keep watching NOVA as the Human Extinction keeps getting whittled down by hundreds of billions of years. Talk about 'cynical and nihilistic'.

 

[Cypress]

I think I've made it clear on more than one occasion what my view is.

'Religion' is something from the Past. When people thought the Earth was the Center of the Universe. There were hundreds of Religions, all around the World, each telling a Story of how everything came to be.
Primitive. So ... interesting to Study ... as Ancient Myths.

'Christianity' is something I'm a little more familiar with since I grew up in America where that is the main religion. As I've said before, my view ... Christianity is a Slave Religion. I don't subscribe to it's Philosophy. I won't teach it to my children. I will not support it.

I have NO PROBLEM with you embracing whatever you feel is 'REAL'. I like diversity of thought.

Cypress: "That kind of strict materialism strikes me as cynical and nihilistic."
Jack: I told you I watched NOVA the other day. It told the story of the last suns to survive in the Universe would be the Red Dwarfs, and after the last one went extinct, the Universe would become dark and cold. They said in about a trillion years. THEN ... I watched NOVA again last night and they talked about Galaxies, the Milky Way and Andromeda. They said the two were pulling each other towards each other, and eventually they would collide. And maybe Humans would again re-appear? This they said was 4.5 billion years from now. So I'm becoming reluctant to keep watching NOVA as the Human Extinction keeps getting whittled down by hundreds of billions of years. Talk about 'cynical and nihilistic'.

We learn about ethics, morality, and how to best live our lives through myths, stories, parables.

Ethical frameworks and moral codes do not just fall into your lap out of the sky.

I wish you luck in learning about ethics from particle accelerators, mathematical theorems, and mass spectrometers

 

[Dutch Uncle]

We learn about ethics, morality, and how to best live our lives through myths, stories, parables.

Ethical frameworks and moral codes do not just fall into your lap out of the sky.

I wish you luck in learning about ethics from particle accelerators, mathematical theorems, and mass spectrometers

Agreed. It's part of the social fabric that helps unite a people together.

 

[Cypress]

Agreed. It's part of the social fabric that helps unite a people together.

For sure.

And ethical standards change through time.

In pagan Greco-Roman culture, honor, duty, filial piety, glory were revered as standards of conduct..

In Christianity, Jainism, Buddhism, etc. temperance, universal love, charity, non-violence, mercy, humbleness was the message to one degree or another..

It's not like a moral code just falls out of the sky into our laps. The modern world's religious traditions form the ethical mileu we all were incubated in, irrespective of whether we are irreligious or not.

 

[domer76]

You seem to be basing your expertise on Christianity based on a few snippets of translated text from the New Testament, and some vague and obviously one sided and caricatured historical events.

I have spent a decade trying to study Christianity, Hinduism, Daoism, and Buddhism and I still feel like I have only the most rudimentary knowledge of the history, theology, and rich tapestry of interpretations and experiences of those faith traditions.


I do not think there is an old guy in white robes floating in the clouds.

But I also reject a strictly materialistic, reductionist view of reality and human experience. I do not think we are simply a collection of quarks and electrons.

I am perfectly open to considering that there is a higher reality, an ultimate truth, a God, a Brahman a Dao, or any other name humans want to put on it. I am not dogmatic about the details, but I reject your notion that I am nothing but quarks and electrons held together by electromagnetism and the nuclear forces. That kind of strict materialism strikes me as cynical and nihilistic.

It's hydrogen bonding that is responsible for our existence. Without it, water (based on its molecular weight) would have a boiling point of about methane. -260 degrees F

 

[Cypress]

It's hydrogen bonding that is responsible for our existence. Without it, water (based on its molecular weight) would have a boiling point of about methane. -260 degrees F

True, thanks for the insight into chemical bonds.... but I am thinking like a particle physicist...

At a deeper level, we are made of quarks, which are bonded by the strong nuclear force, and electrons, which are governed by electromagnetism.

Hydrogen bonding itself might be an expression of the electromagnetic force, I would have to defer to a chemist

 

[Dutch Uncle]

For sure.

And ethical standards change through time.

In pagan Greco-Roman culture, honor, duty, filial piety, glory were revered as standards of conduct..

In Christianity, Jainism, Buddhism, etc. temperance, universal love, charity, non-violence, mercy, humbleness was the message to one degree or another..

It's not like a moral code just falls out of the sky into our laps. The modern world's religious traditions form the ethical mileu we all were incubated in, irrespective of whether we are irreligious or not.

Like humanity itself, human society evolves.

What we value is part of who we are. Looking at what evil people like Legina, PmP and Trumpers value indicates who they are.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

It's hydrogen bonding that is responsible for our existence. Without it, water (based on its molecular weight) would have a boiling point of about methane. -260 degrees F

Is than an accident of nature or preplanning?

 

[domer76]

True, thanks for the insight into chemical bonds.... but I am thinking like a particle physicist...

At a deeper level, we are made of quarks, which are bonded by the strong nuclear force, and electrons, which are governed by electromagnetism.

Hydrogen bonding itself might be an expression of the electromagnetic force, I would have to defer to a chemist

I was being a little facetious. Of course we are more than that. It's our own particular type of consciousness that sets us apart. Not to say that it is any superior to any other consciousness possessed by other species in our world.

 

[domer76]

Is than an accident of nature or preplanning?

If it's preplanning, then you're talking about some sort of creator. I've not bought into that theory. At least the omnibenevolent, omniscient, omnipowerful version.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

If it's preplanning, then you're talking about some sort of creator. I've not bought into that theory. At least the omnibenevolent, omniscient, omnipowerful version.

A cosmic equivalent to a kid's terrarium science project?

 

[Cypress]

I was being a little facetious. Of course we are more than that. It's our own particular type of consciousness that sets us apart. Not to say that it is any superior to any other consciousness possessed by other species in our world.

I agree.

You cannot make a Michelangelo or an Issac Newton simply by gluing together a bunch of quarks.

On the flipside, in terms of consciousness, I am convinced that dolphins are more intelligent than some humans.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I agree.

You cannot make a Michelangelo or an Issac Newton simply by gluing together a bunch of quarks.

On the flipside, in terms of consciousness, I am convinced that dolphins are more intelligent than some humans.

Based on what logic?

 

[domer76]

A cosmic equivalent to a kid's terrarium science project?

LOL. Could be.

The problem I have with the Christian model is that I see no intervention by any supposedly benevolent being.

Epicurus nailed it.

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

 

[domer76]

I agree.

You cannot make a Michelangelo or an Issac Newton simply by gluing together a bunch of quarks.

On the flipside, in terms of consciousness, I am convinced that dolphins are more intelligent than some humans.

When I see instances of animals expressing more empathy,devotion, love, intelligence and intuitive sense of caring than humans, it makes me question the supposed superiority of our "intelligence".

 

[Dutch Uncle]

LOL. Could be.

The problem I have with the Christian model is that I see no intervention by any supposedly benevolent being.

Epicurus nailed it.

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

You're addressing two different things; both the true nature of the Universe and existence and also the Christian view of the same. What is your view of the true nature of the Universe and existence?

I disagree with the Christian view, but have no problem with those who believe it. My wife is one who believes "in the power of prayer" and that God does do requests. I'm more of a Diest.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

When I see instances of animals expressing more empathy,devotion, love, intelligence and intuitive sense of caring than humans, it makes me question the supposed superiority of our "intelligence".

Have you ever seen animals eat their young? Dogs shred a cat?

 

[domer76]

You're addressing two different things; both the true nature of the Universe and existence and also the Christian view of the same. What is your view of the true nature of the Universe and existence?

I disagree with the Christian view, but have no problem with those who believe it. My wife is one who believes "in the power of prayer" and that God does do requests. I'm more of a Diest.

My view of the universe and existence?

The universe doesn’t give a fuck about you or me or anything on this insignificant blue dot.

Our existence? No more significant that any other creature or living thing on this planet. We live, we die. Just like every other living entity. We merely possess a consciousness of that existence that sets us apart. Maybe.

The only benefit to power of prayer is to the person that is doing the praying. If it makes them feel good about their intentions, great. More power to them. As far as any omnibenevolent being answering those prayers? Naw

 

[domer76]

Have you ever seen animals eat their young? Dogs shred a cat?

I’ve seen instances of humans cruelly exterminating each other by the millions. I’ve seen instances of humans murdering their children in the name of their religion.