There is only one thing to say here

Superfreak said:
"The CBO, has stated, that malpractice insurance accounts for less than two percent of health care spending."

Tell you what Darla... SHOW me their breakdown of healthcare spending.
Click to expand...

Google Cbo and malpractice, or Cbo and healthcare spending, and I'm sure you'll find the report. It's been talked about for ages now.

I can't go digging up reports that I know about, because I read a variety of news sources, everytime a right winger, who gets his news only from CAto or something, is misinformed and becomes emotional about it.
 
"Evidence from the states indicates that premiums for malpractice insurance are lower when tort liability is restricted than they would be otherwise. But even large savings in premiums can have only a small direct impact on health care spending--private or governmental--because malpractice costs account for less than 2 percent of that spending.(3)

In short, the evidence available to date does not make a strong case that restricting malpractice liability would have a significant effect, either positive or negative, on economic efficiency. Thus, choices about specific proposals may hinge more on their implications for equity--in particular, on their effects on health care providers, patients injured through malpractice, and users of the health care system in general. "



http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdoc.cfm?index=4968&type=0&sequence=0
 
When you say advertising are you referrring to just advertising or are you including all expenses related to marketing ie... doctor visits, sales force etc... ????

Because a third of Mercks expenses this year went to R&D. Another 5% (approx) went to Vioxx legal fees/awards. That is almost 40% of their total expenses right there.
 
Superfreak said:
Darla... please show me where you are getting the advertising budgets for the pharmas...
Click to expand...

I tried to find the "advertising budgets for the pharmas" but they're not online. Their ad budgets are larger than their R &D budgets, and I can't even find anyone who is attempting to dispute that even in cyberspace.

I'm surprised it's not common knowledge. I've seen it written about in so many different places. The New York Revue of Books, Paul Krugman, and several books I've read. I don't think this is in dispute SF, but if you can find something that says it is in disupte, then I will look at it.
 
Google Cbo and malpractice, or Cbo and healthcare spending, and I'm sure you'll find the report. It's been talked about for ages now.

I can't go digging up reports that I know about, because I read a variety of news sources, everytime a right winger, who gets his news only from CAto or something, is misinformed and becomes emotional about it."

Just did that. An 80 page report. I will read it tonight.
 
Superfreak said:
When you say advertising are you referrring to just advertising or are you including all expenses related to marketing ie... doctor visits, sales force etc... ????

Because a third of Mercks expenses this year went to R&D. Another 5% (approx) went to Vioxx legal fees/awards. That is almost 40% of their total expenses right there.
Click to expand...

No, their ad budgets include everything, including all of the people they hire to sleep with doctors so the doctors will give out their drugs instead of another company's drugs. That's what Rudy's new wife used to do for a living.

Did you find something that claims that pharam companies spend more on R &D than they do on advertising? Or are you having some trouble finding that claim being made?
 
Superfreak said:
Google Cbo and malpractice, or Cbo and healthcare spending, and I'm sure you'll find the report. It's been talked about for ages now.

I can't go digging up reports that I know about, because I read a variety of news sources, everytime a right winger, who gets his news only from CAto or something, is misinformed and becomes emotional about it."

Just did that. An 80 page report. I will read it tonight.
Click to expand...

I see. You don't trust the conclusion of the CBO, because they must be leftwing plants, so you are going to read an 80 page report tonight?

Ok.
 
"I tried to find the "advertising budgets for the pharmas" but they're not online. Their ad budgets are larger than their R &D budgets, and I can't even find anyone who is attempting to dispute that even in cyberspace."

I tried that as well. Which is why I took Merck specifically. IF you include ALL marketing as advertising, then you can make a that case. If you include just advertising, then it is false. The bulk of their spending other than R&D is on marketing to the doctors. ie... their sales force. I suppose if you stretch the meaning of the word advertising, then yes the total would be higher than the R&D. So if that is the case and what you meant, then I apologize for calling you insane. We'll moderate that to delusional ;)
 
Superfreak said:
"I tried to find the "advertising budgets for the pharmas" but they're not online. Their ad budgets are larger than their R &D budgets, and I can't even find anyone who is attempting to dispute that even in cyberspace."

I tried that as well. Which is why I took Merck specifically. IF you include ALL marketing as advertising, then you can make a that case. If you include just advertising, then it is false. The bulk of their spending other than R&D is on marketing to the doctors. ie... their sales force. I suppose if you stretch the meaning of the word advertising, then yes the total would be higher than the R&D. So if that is the case and what you meant, then I apologize for calling you insane. We'll moderate that to delusional ;)
Click to expand...

Marketing is advertising. I'm in marketing. It's the same budget.

I understand that as a Libertarian, your religious beliefs have just been challenged when you found out that 1) malpractice is not affecting health care costs to any real degree and that 2) big pharma is more interested in selling than in curing...but that doesn't change basic marketing facts.

And I don't have a breakdown of what part is spent on tv and print ads, and brochures and posters to hang in doctor's offices.

And they of course, have not factored in the salaries of the scientists and adminstrators, into the R &D budget, right? lol.

Stop being silly sf.
 
"I see. You don't trust the conclusion of the CBO, because they must be leftwing plants, so you are going to read an 80 page report tonight? "

Do you really want the "conclusion"??? On their summary page, their conclusion is that in a study done on the STATE level.... imposing a limit on tort claims reduced the costs of malpractice claims and subsequently malpractice insurance. But it does go into more detail and I would like to read it.

But to answer your question more concisely... yes, I do not trust the CBO assessments. They have been wrong before and they can easily be wrong again. They are most certainly not the be all end all.... The CBO tend to be made up of average at best accountants. They do not get the best, the best work for the corporations, the big four or themselves... not the government.
 
Superfreak said:
"I see. You don't trust the conclusion of the CBO, because they must be leftwing plants, so you are going to read an 80 page report tonight? "

Do you really want the "conclusion"??? On their summary page, their conclusion is that in a study done on the STATE level.... imposing a limit on tort claims reduced the costs of malpractice claims and subsequently malpractice insurance. But it does go into more detail and I would like to read it.

But to answer your question more concisely... yes, I do not trust the CBO assessments. They have been wrong before and they can easily be wrong again. They are most certainly not the be all end all.... The CBO tend to be made up of average at best accountants. They do not get the best, the best work for the corporations, the big four or themselves... not the government.
Click to expand...

I understand.

Religion is like that.
 
mar·ket·ing /ˈmɑrkɪtɪŋ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[mahr-ki-ting] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. the act of buying or selling in a market.
2. the total of activities involved in the transfer of goods from the producer or seller to the consumer or buyer, including advertising, shipping, storing, and selling.

As I said... Advertising is a PART of marketing. It is not ALL of marketing. There is a big difference.
 
Superfreak said:
"I see. You don't trust the conclusion of the CBO, because they must be leftwing plants, so you are going to read an 80 page report tonight? "

Do you really want the "conclusion"??? On their summary page, their conclusion is that in a study done on the STATE level.... imposing a limit on tort claims reduced the costs of malpractice claims and subsequently malpractice insurance. But it does go into more detail and I would like to read it.

But to answer your question more concisely... yes, I do not trust the CBO assessments. They have been wrong before and they can easily be wrong again. They are most certainly not the be all end all.... The CBO tend to be made up of average at best accountants. They do not get the best, the best work for the corporations, the big four or themselves... not the government.
Click to expand...


to the extent that any research group can be trusted to do analytical reports without an agenda, it would be non-profit, non-partisan groups. CBO, IPCC, Center for Disease Control, National Science Foundation, WHO, etc.

The reports you dig up from CATO, or I dig up from Moveon.org, are going to be biased. They're going to have an agenda. They will cherry pick facts to fit that agenda.

I can understand why rightwingers created CATO, AEI, and Heritage. The facts from sources that are as non-partisan as possible, didn't fit with rightwing mythology ;)
 
Umm CDC and NISHI get their funding and direction from politicians....I think it would be improper to call them non partisan.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top