Thousands of fired federal workers must be rehired immediately, judge rules

[Cypress]

Probationary employees, however, do not have “due process” rights, meaning an agency can terminate the employee with only a written reason for the termination and the date effective — which could be as soon as “effective today.”


What part of that do u not get?

Think man, think!

DOGE is not an agency that has ever been authorized and funded by congress. It's an ad hoc collection of tech billionaires and 23 year old computer geeks.

DOGE also lied about the reason thousands of these employees were fired.

Agency's have always had the authority to evaluate and terminate subpar, lazy, or incompetent probationary employees. But you and Trump bypassed proper procedure.

DOGE does not have that blanket authority.

 

[Walt]

So basically, what you are saying (and agreeing with me), is that the Department of Education isn't really necessary

No, I am saying it is seriously understaffed. They do not have enough people to manage their budget.

I will again return to math. The ED has a budget of $238.04 billion, and 4,200 employees. That means the average employee manages $67 million. There are people in their 20's trying to manage a billion dollars worth of funding. It is insane.

No one at ED has the time to try to track down waste, or find improvements to best practices. They are just trying to keep things running for another day. It is insane. They certainly do not have the time for meeting with 3.8 million teachers about individual students.

 

[Walt]

Earl is desperate to disrupt any debate by repeatedly asking the same question, and by lying about the debate. Earl has lost the debate, badly, so he wastes our time with insane ranting about Americans in diapers, or some such nonsense.

Are all of those 340 million people in school, Rarely Right Walter?

I have answered that repeatedly. Why are you having so much trouble understanding the answer?

No mention of 70 million til I asked about the 340 million, Rarely Right Walter.

That is provably a lie. I first mentioned 70 million students in this thread 6:48AM EST. You first asked how many students there were at 7:29AM EST.

The ED has 4,200 employees for about 70 million students.

Are all of those 340 million people in school, Rarely Right Walter?

 

[Walt]

Rarely Right Walter, I do understand your embarrassment when caught with the 340 million figure when it’s only 70 million (your own figure) actually in school.

It’s tough for you to admit when you are wrong.

I feel your pain, Rarely Right Walter…really.

Do you honestly think you are winning at this debate?

 

[TOP]

No, I am saying it is seriously understaffed. They do not have enough people to manage their budget.

I will again return to math. The ED has a budget of $238.04 billion, and 4,200 employees. That means the average employee manages $67 million. There are people in their 20's trying to manage a billion dollars worth of funding. It is insane.

No one at ED has the time to try to track down waste, or find improvements to best practices. They are just trying to keep things running for another day. It is insane. They certainly do not have the time for meeting with 3.8 million teachers about individual students.

Math has nothing to do with this... If their job isn't teachers and students what is it? They obviously haven't been handling it and aren't going to be able to any time ever.... So giving the responsibility and the budget to the states and local systems is the only answer...

 

[Walt]

It's getting more difficult to get great teachers these days... It's getting more difficult to keep great teachers these days.And it's not because of the students , it's because of the adults...

A lot of it is because of the pay, and the government.

 

[Walt]

Math has nothing to do with this.

It is thinking like that which is why you keep getting the answer wrong. Budgeting always has to do with math. If you ignore math for your feelings, then you will usually get bad results. You feel that 4,200 employees are too many employees to manage $238 billion budget, but the math says you are wrong. You feel that 4,200 employees are taking up too much time of 3.8 million teachers, but the math says you are wrong.

If their job isn't teachers and students what is it?

Administering a budget of $238 billion?

 

[TOP]

It is thinking like that which is why you keep getting the answer wrong. Budgeting always has to do with math. If you ignore math for your feelings, then you will usually get bad results. You feel that 4,200 employees are too many employees to manage $238 billion budget, but the math says you are wrong. You feel that 4,200 employees are taking up too much time of 3.8 million teachers, but the math says you are wrong.


Administering a budget of $238 billion?

....... They aren't taking care of that huge budget... And haven't been for a long time... That's why it's time to hand that budget over to the states and localities... Long long long overdue... I never sat in an evaluatory meeting with federal representatives where any of them knew anything about education in general...and nothing about Schools and the needs of teachers and students.... Specifically special education... What an incredible waste of time and money.....

 

[Earl]

Do you honestly think you are winning at this debate?

Yes, I do, Rarely Right Walter.

So is TOP.

Are all of those 340 million people in school, Rarely Right Walter?

I feel your pain.

 

[Nordberg]

....... They aren't taking care of that huge budget... And haven't been for a long time... That's why it's time to hand that budget over to the states and localities... Long long long overdue... I never sat in an evaluatory meeting with federal representatives where any of them knew anything about education in general...and nothing about Schools and the needs of teachers and students.... Specifically special education... What an incredible waste of time and money.....

The administrators in schools have advanced degrees and training. A special ed teacher is not more qualified.
States land local governments are a race to the bottom. A national system allows you to move to another state and have essentially the same education. You can fit into the new schools. When moving for a job, the employer can assume your education is equivalent.

 

[Walt]

They aren't taking care of that huge budget... And haven't been for a long time...

I do not know what to tell you. $238 billion is being sent out, so they are doing it. Being so understaffed, I have to question how good of a job they are doing. But denying it is happening flies in the face of reality.

That's why it's time to hand that budget over to the states and localities...

The state and local governments already take care of most of the education spending. It would be nonsensical to have them manage the federal spending.

I never sat in an evaluatory meeting with federal representatives where any of them knew anything about education in general

The federal workers are so overworked, and there are so many more teachers than federal education workers, I just do not believe they were traveling to meet with you. It just does not make mathematical sense. I know you want us to ignore math, but I am beginning to wonder if you really are a teacher.

OK, why would they be meeting with you to discuss school district-wide grants? Wouldn't it be better to meet with a school district administrator? Given that they do not even have the time to take phone calls from school district administrators, why should we believe they came to meet with you?

 

[Walt]

Yes, I do, Rarely Right Walter.

So is TOP.

Are all of those 340 million people in school, Rarely Right Walter?

I feel your pain.

You are not special for disrupting mature debate. It is actually quite easy to do.

 

[Earl]

You are not special for disrupting mature debate. It is actually quite easy to do.

Where is the mature debate, Rarely Right Walter?

Are all of those 340 million people in school, Rarely Right Walter?

You don’t even know who won the elections.

I feel your pain.

 

[volsrocks]

Just lay them all off!

Its really simple

 

[Neoclitorus]

Trump fascists are widely despised across America. And now across the world, including Canada.

lol @ the world.....and Canada.

 

[RB 60]

You are not special for disrupting mature debate. It is actually quite easy to do.

I am special, dammit!

 

[TOP]

I do not know what to tell you. $238 billion is being sent out, so they are doing it. Being so understaffed, I have to question how good of a job they are doing. But denying it is happening flies in the face of reality.


The state and local governments already take care of most of the education spending. It would be nonsensical to have them manage the federal spending.


The federal workers are so overworked, and there are so many more teachers than federal education workers, I just do not believe they were traveling to meet with you. It just does not make mathematical sense. I know you want us to ignore math, but I am beginning to wonder if you really are a teacher.

OK, why would they be meeting with you to discuss school district-wide grants? Wouldn't it be better to meet with a school district administrator? Given that they do not even have the time to take phone calls from school district administrators, why should we believe they came to meet with you?

I Don't doubt that it's being sent out... What I doubt is where it's actually going...and is it being used appropriately.... So so so so much wasted money....The feds simply aren't doing a good job... I think that's rather clear...(They did come to meet with us... And they were not meeting with us to discuss School district wide grants.... I've been very patient in telling you that I taught special education for thirty years...) They don't need a huge department to direct some federal funding to state and local districts... Assign a team to monitor each State....Because obviously eac state has different needs... You're saying they're overworked.... Excellent raisin to start over.... Get rid of
The people who aren't doing anything or doing it wrong... Did you ever look at the salaries? I cannot wait for all the changes.... Our schools...our teachers....Our kids deserve so much better.... And it's finally happening... The only thing that would make me happier is to see Randy be replaced.. And
Unions go back to actually being for the teachers...

 

[Teflon Don]

Or else what?

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

The positions that were eliminated were mostly probationary...There was no one who was "best in their field"...
But If someone was very good, and loved their job, and got a pink slip, they'll go back....They've not already "moved on"...If they were insulted beyond repair, they're not a good hire anyway...
The worst won't be rehired, or if they are, won't last...
Could it have been handled differently...sure... Did it need to be done, and no one else was doing it? Absolutely...
Short term pain, long term gain...
And long, long, long overdue...

Wow... You really drank the koolaid didn't you.
A person promoted to a new position because they ere the best at their old position is a probationary employee in their new job. All of those with a new job title were fired because they were "probationary."

 

[Teflon Don]

The feral gobblement has turned into a money laundering scheme for the Democrat Party. That is why they are screeching so hard