Time To Dump The Second Amendment?

PoliTalker said:
Hello Dutch,



I think of you as right of center but not right wing. When I hear the term wing I think of extreme right or extreme left. Similarly, I am left of center, but not left wing. If you are right wing, then you are the only one at JPP that I am able to conduct a respectful conversation with. As far as I am concerned all the right wingers here have mouthed off at me and been subsequently placed on Ignore.

Fixing the problem is the whole reason for whatever measures we apply. I am wide open to suggestions for what those measures might be, but the bottom line is results. If ineffective measures are enacted they will have to be abandoned and try something else until we get the results.

Yes, government needs to enact more control over people's lives, because too many people are acting too irresponsibly. That is government's role. We can't wish this problem away.
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Sorry, but I strongly disagree here for two main reasons:
1. Power corrupts.
2. Who determines what is best for how you should live your life? Do you really want a Ministry of Christianity dictating to you how should live your life? What place you have in society "for your own good"? I sure as Hell do not.



It's also not "government's role" as we previously discussed with the Preamble and Declaration of Independence.
 
AssHatZombie said:
It's a right not a restriction.

the federal government protects that right nationwide.

maybe you won't always be dumb.

its not a hallucinated constitutional right, like abortion is.
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the entirety of the bill of rights was an appeasement to dumb people that did not understand the constitution itself.

No court would of ruled with your views prior to incorporation. Original intent was never to limit the powers of the states as it pertains to gun ownership.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Dutch,



I always try to consider the views of those I disagree with. I am willing to compromise. I am not getting that same willingness to work things out from the main thrust of the Republican party. The extremists can't even be talked to. They are full of hatred. And they run the party. The rest of the right prefers to choose right wing extremism over ANY liberal ideas.

Compromise takes the willingness of both sides; but we have one side that refuses to compromise or even talk about it. They call that a weakness. That is what is preventing any progress. It is the stubbornness of the right wing.

It's like it takes two to have a marriage, but it only takes one to break it up.
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You and I can agree that the Republican party is now an authoritarian Theocratic Federalist party. Completely antithetical to American ideals. The fact about 30% of American voters support them is both strange and shocking to me. Yes, even more so than the 30% who support the Democrats. I can understand weak people wanting to be mothered from cradle to grave, to live their entire lives in the basement of a parental government....I just don't agree with it.

IMO, this is a phase. What we are doing as a nation cannot last. Eventually people will suffer so much that they fight back in protest and the voting booth. Let's not forget that the 30% figures are for American voters, not the 40% of those Americans who don't vote at all.

When enough people become pissed off, they'll stand up and say something. We're not there yet.
 
zymurgy said:
the entirety of the bill of rights was an appeasement to dumb people that did not understand the constitution itself.

No court would of ruled with your views prior to incorporation. Original intent was never to limit the powers of the states as it pertains to gun ownership.
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wrong.

the states cannot pass laws that transgress the constitutional rights in the constitution.

Just admit you have contempt for freedom and are neocon war mongering antihuman idiot.
 
Hello Flash,

Flash said:
The stock owners. Millions of middle class have retirement accounts that made them money and many retire with over $1 million. The stock market was not making money during the entire recession. It took a big drop (about 40%) in 2008 and by around 2012 had largely returned to the former level. People only lost money if they sold.
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That is assuming everyone owns stock, which is not the case. People who owned no stock also lost money because they could not afford house payments, lost their homes and their wealth. Wages did not increase with home prices. Rents did, though. Half of America owns no stock. If their income was cut they lost money just paying for life. And if their income was not cut, it was not increased. Few got raises during the Great Recession.

Flash said:
I don't think anybody was robbing the till. Politicians were spending to please Democratic and Republican voters who want more spending on military, Social Security, Medicare, social programs like TANF, SNAP, Earned Income Tax Credit, education funding, infrastructure, stimulus checks, child tax credit......

You are right--we spend (borrow) too much, but voters want that spending (for stuff they like). 9/11 results in more spending for security, mass shootings result in more for hardening schools, immigration problems result in more money for walls and border agents.
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Politicians are totally robbing the till. They just do it in indirect ways. They do what the oligarchs want, and get kickbacks. The oligarchs are robbing the till by not being required to pay their fair share of taxes. No tax on stock trades. Low tax on capital gains. All kinds of loopholes for the rich. And how about Republican governments giving their donors huge contracts? Schools and prisons should not be for profit. They serve society. That is not meant to be a business. It is absurd to have prison profiteers lobbying for more laws and longer sentences that do not serve society.
 
Hello Flash,

Flash said:
Who uses the same districts? (I don't follow). Gerrymandering does not violate one citizen, one vote. It may determine who wins, but not whether citizens have an equal vote. Most states use it to protect incumbents.

It you want representation in a state to be roughly equal to the same percentage of racial/ethnic groups and political party support in that state, you can only achieve it through gerrymandering. There is no way to draw square districts (or whatever is desired) and achieve political and racial representation. I think NY just had some of its districts overturned. It was always intended to be a political process.
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It needs to be done with a bipartisan committee, not winner draws the districts.
 
Hello Flash,

Flash said:
Your chart.

1971: 29% lower/50% middle/21% upper
2021: 25% lower/61% middle/14% upper

Between 1971-2021: 7% of the middle class moved to upper class and 4% moved to lower class.

So, the middle class is smaller because more of them moved into upper class and a smaller number moved into the lower class.

It seems like this is a good trend to have more people move to upper class
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Thanks to government assistance programs people have moved out of poverty and into middle class. That doesn't mean propserity is being spread around equitably.

 
AssHatZombie said:
wrong.

the states cannot pass laws that transgress the constitutional rights in the constitution.

Just admit you have contempt for freedom and are neocon war mongering antihuman idiot.
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I have history on my side - the courts did not see it your way until after the 13th and 14th amendments

retard said:
Just admit you have contempt for freedom and are neocon war mongering antihuman idiot.
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what a fucking retard you are. I can point out how the world is or was without agreeing with it. wow - you are a dipshit clown shoe wearing motherfucker :laugh:

at no point did i weigh in on and say I prefer that, but the fact is, until the 13 and 14th amendment, states had the ability to take guns and courts allowed it
 
AssHatZombie said:
No it isn't.
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Then please explain these posts:

AssHatZombie said:
so niggers can take the day off from pretending they can read.
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AssHatZombie said:
niggers on bottom.
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AssHatZombie said:
Basically all neocons are irrational. Their reason for doing things is "because jews said".
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AssHatZombie said:
SO what word does Noachite translate into? You're so full of shit.

They're not converting jews. They're converting non jews to become jew slaves. Please do some reading. You cannot argue with someone you must educate.

http://torahsearch.com/page.cfm/1469 here's a good set of links
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...or not. Why don't you just lie and call me names instead? :rofl2:
 
Hello Flash,

Flash said:
When 63% increase their income and 36% decline it corrects the misleading implication of a "declining middle class." Nobody sacrificed the 4% as they are just as capable of increasing their income as the 7% who did so.
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If the whole nation is gaining, but the super-rich are gaining in leaps and bounds compared to everyone else either taking mostly small steps or no steps then wealth inequality is dangerously increasing. That is bad for America. A healthy economy depends on everyone being able to participate.

The current system is producing an oligarchy and a class system in America. That was not intended by our founding documents. America has gone awry.
 
zymurgy said:
I have history on my side - the courts did not see it your way until after the 13th and 14th amendments



what a fucking retard you are. I can point out how the world is or was without agreeing with it. wow - you are a dipshit clown shoe wearing motherfucker :laugh:

at no point did i weigh in on and say I prefer that, but the fact is, until the 13 and 14th amendment, states had the ability to take guns and courts allowed it
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the courts were wrong before.

reality doesn't start when courts admit something.
 
Last edited:
Hello American Man,

American Man said:
But until then, guns are the reality we have to deal with. There are security protocols that can limit surprise. Having live CCTV around the premise is a start. Having steel doors that can't be unlocked except by passcode is another option. An entrance that can only be entered through via student electronic badge is another. Regular comprehensive shooter practice drills is another.
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How are you going to get kids to and from school? Turn the buses into armored vehicles with a 50 cal turret? How are kids going to play outside for recess? What if they go on a field trip?

The second is outdated. A well regulated militia is no longer necessary to the security of our free nation. The proliferation of deadly arms is threatening the security of communities in our nation. We have to update the second.

How can we allow gun ownership and still have safe communities?
 
AssHatZombie said:
Some of those are over the top dark comedic hyperbole as we already discussed.

and there's nothing wrong with discussing the noahide faith either.
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Now you're lying again; we didn't discuss it. You said it. Repeatedly. Now tell me all your insults and lies against others on JPP are just you being "dark" and "comedic".
 
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