Time To Dump The Second Amendment?

Hello Dutch,

Dutch Uncle said:
Calling me and others who support our Constitution gun nuts is an example of you demeaning others and driving a wedge between you and those with a different POV.
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I did not say you.

And there are definitely gun nuts out there. That doesn't imply that every gun enthusiast is a gun nut. It does, however, serve as a distraction away from the point I was making, and the one you sort of refuse to discuss.

How have you actually addressed the fact that the second is outdated?

The right to own a gun has nothing practical to do with protecting America. Our military has that covered. The standing army the Constitution tried to prevent from ever happening? Yeah. That one.

The second is bogus. It needs to be updated. Putting it off is killing us. America is dying to do this.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Dutch,



I did not say you.

And there are definitely gun nuts out there. That doesn't imply that every gun enthusiast is a gun nut. It does, however, serve as a distraction away from the point I was making, and the one you sort of refuse to discuss.

How have you actually addressed the fact that the second is outdated?

The right to own a gun has nothing practical to do with protecting America. Our military has that covered. The standing army the Constitution tried to prevent from ever happening? Yeah. That one.

The second is bogus. It needs to be updated. Putting it off is killing us. America is dying to do this.
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nah.

we're gonna keep 2a.

thanks for your input, but request denied.
 
Hello Dutch,

Dutch Uncle said:
Sorry, Ms. Poli, but that's another example of you driving a wedge just like the RWNJs do.

Despite the nutty claims of JPP's RWNJs, I'm among those on the "right" you just accused of being solely driven by rumors and peer pressure.

How can Americans become unified if both sides keep blaming others for all of America's problems?
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I am all for compromise and working out solutions. That is the logical way to resolve the differences between the left and the right and come up with the best policy for any situation. Or at least come up with the best one we can manage. Maybe it will work out, maybe it won't, but if both sides have some input it is the best we can do together, which is the way it is supposed to be and intended by the framers.

Instead of that, we have the Republicans acting like idiots and refusing to compromise, or only giving it lip service. Their main block of voters are fanatical extremists who refuse to compromise, are selfish, want things their way or the highway, hate liberals, and do not believe it is required of them to acknowledge that the country includes liberals nor that liberals should have a right to their own view and input. Add to that that they are not very well informed and the result is a dysfunctional nation, unable to create effective policy.

Because of all that, our education system sucks and it has so long that we now have the adult products of this sucky system easily taken in by propaganda. We get some white collar crook with Elvis-like draw and they think blind allegiance to him is great.

I don't blame the fools who have been taken in by rumors and social media as much as I blame the ones getting filthy rich off of all of it and selling our nation down the drain in the process. Tucker Carlson? Koch brothers? Alex Jones? Donald Trump? Bannon? Roger Stone? Lewis Powell? Vlad? Yeah, just a few. It's a long list.

And yes I wish more people cared more about America than their own selfishness.
 
Hello Dutch,

Dutch Uncle said:
First of all, even the UN recognizes the right of self-defense. Different countries handle it differently but mostly it's a matter of trust and mutual agreement. As pointed out all across JPP, there's not a lot of people willing to compromise. They prefer blaming others.

Do you believe everyone has unalienable rights, Ms. Poli, or do you believe the Federals government deems which rights we should have?
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Governments definitely establish and ensure rights. Hopefully that is with the consent of the governed. We like to think so in America, but to be accurate, America does what the rich want.

You know I don't believe in creator theory. The only rights we have are because we have this government. Other places in the world don't have what we have. We should be more thankful for our government, but that's not very popular. Right now the rage is to hate on government. I tell you what. Our government goes away and suddenly a lot of people are going to be missing it.

Government-haters don't know how good they have it in America.

They could be a lot worse off.

They should definitely avoid slipping into North Korea or trying out how it is to live as a subject there.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Dutch,



I did not say you.

And there are definitely gun nuts out there. That doesn't imply that every gun enthusiast is a gun nut. It does, however, serve as a distraction away from the point I was making, and the one you sort of refuse to discuss.

How have you actually addressed the fact that the second is outdated?

The right to own a gun has nothing practical to do with protecting America. Our military has that covered. The standing army the Constitution tried to prevent from ever happening? Yeah. That one.

The second is bogus. It needs to be updated. Putting it off is killing us. America is dying to do this.
Click to expand...

I'm RW. I voted Republican for 38 years and never voted for a Democrat President. I support both the Constitution and the current rights protected against the Feds of the Second Amendment. You're old and wise enough to know a broad-brush covers a lot of area, often unintentionally making a mess.

That said I fully support stronger laws ensuring that nutjobs like Ramos, Gendron and others can't access firearms or ammunition. What I don't support is making every gun-owning American a criminal who is guilty first until proven innocent. That's what singling gun owners for extra costs, paperwork and mental exams does.

What these biased laws the Anti-Gun Democrats don't do is fix the suicide, domestic violence and gang-banger problems in our nation. You are pushing for more Federal control of our lives without actually doing much to fix the problems.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Dutch,



Governments definitely establish and ensure rights. Hopefully that is with the consent of the governed. We like to think so in America, but to be accurate, America does what the rich want.

You know I don't believe in creator theory. The only rights we have are because we have this government. Other places in the world don't have what we have. We should be more thankful for our government, but that's not very popular. Right now the rage is to hate on government. I tell you what. Our government goes away and suddenly a lot of people are going to be missing it.

Government-haters don't know how good they have it in America.

They could be a lot worse off.

They should definitely avoid slipping into North Korea or trying out how it is to live as a subject there.
Click to expand...

Agreed not very many Americans fully appreciate what we have. Another reason for bringing back the draft, even if it includes 4 years at Peace Corps, AmeriCorps or the like. Anything to get them away from home and show them what the real world is like.

Both our form of government and our economic system, plus the luck of the times, have allowed Americans to have it so good. Capitalism in a free society was the engine that drove our nation to where it is today. The horses pulling the wagon.

It's a symbiotic relationship. A marriage where the better of each can be helped or hindered by it's partner. Yin-Yang.

You think government forged this nation, that a bunch of politicians and lawyers are what made our nation great. My view varies a bit. IMO, government is a light bridle on Capitalism and a bit of a wagon. Pull it's mouth too sharply or load down the wagon too heavily and the horses will collapse or fight...which it does through Congress.

From my POV, the horses aren't pulling very much except for fat cat fucking lawyers and politicians. There's a lot of wealth in this nation. The trend since WWII is for more and more money to go to the rich and less and less to the rest. The good news is that some of the Middle class are moving into the Rich class. The bad news is that most of the Middle Class are moving to the bottom third of the economic ladder. Most of these people are the ones Hillary lost in 2016.

While helping the poor in the ghetto is a great photo-op for politicians, helping millions of those losing economic ground and slipping to the bottom has more impact on elections. Even if it's only the promise of help.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Dutch,

Because not playing it is no solution, actually makes the situation worse and hands the super rich even more power.
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See? You see the world as black and white; either it is or it isn't. Try looking at it from the side or above. Do something different because the two views we've had for the past three decades ain't working.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Flash,

And a lot of people use the situation as an excuse to shirk their civic responsibility to be properly informed and vote. The super rich fund organizations such as ALEC and Heritage with dark money that goes to spreading BS. This causes people to find politics distasteful in general, which is the goal. Fewer people voting leaves a lot fewer minds to sway with BS.

There are a lot of good people out there who do not vote. They don't listen to the news, don't care, take everything for granted, don't believe the USA will ever go away, could ever go away. They are so busy just trying to put together a life for themselves they don't have the time to get well informed, and they feel stupid guessing at voting. So they don't.

When the people wave their chance to have a say in things, that makes it easier for big money to control everything.
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There was a big increase in turnout in the Georgia primary for both the Democrats and Republicans. I don't like laws that restrict voting, but I have yet to see any evidence of voter suppression despite all the predictions based on the Georgia election laws.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Agreed not very many Americans fully appreciate what we have. Another reason for bringing back the draft, even if it includes 4 years at Peace Corps, AmeriCorps or the like. Anything to get them away from home and show them what the real world is like.

Both our form of government and our economic system, plus the luck of the times, have allowed Americans to have it so good. Capitalism in a free society was the engine that drove our nation to where it is today. The horses pulling the wagon.

It's a symbiotic relationship. A marriage where the better of each can be helped or hindered by it's partner. Yin-Yang.

You think government forged this nation, that a bunch of politicians and lawyers are what made our nation great. My view varies a bit. IMO, government is a light bridle on Capitalism and a bit of a wagon. Pull it's mouth too sharply or load down the wagon too heavily and the horses will collapse or fight...which it does through Congress.

From my POV, the horses aren't pulling very much except for fat cat fucking lawyers and politicians. There's a lot of wealth in this nation. The trend since WWII is for more and more money to go to the rich and less and less to the rest. The good news is that some of the Middle class are moving into the Rich class. The bad news is that most of the Middle Class are moving to the bottom third of the economic ladder. Most of these people are the ones Hillary lost in 2016.

While helping the poor in the ghetto is a great photo-op for politicians, helping millions of those losing economic ground and slipping to the bottom has more impact on elections. Even if it's only the promise of help.
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welcome to maga.
 
Flash said:
With an unemployment rate of 3.6% and 11.5 million unfilled jobs, they should probably be using their cars to look for jobs.
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They can't afford the gas. Cheaper to live in the car near a bus stop.

Our government leaders have been robbing the till for decades now. The infrastructure is failing, we're in debt up to our eyeballs and there are no financial reserves to help during times like this. Notice that in the Great Recession it was the middle class who took a hit, not the stock market.

If the middle class was losing money during the Great Recession and the stock market was making money, then who was making the money?
 
AssHatZombie said:
welcome to maga.
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Thanks but no thanks. Trump is a pedophile and I won't belong to any group which supports someone like Pedo Don.

Besides, Pedo Don was one of the rich milking American tax payers for every cent he could get.

5u4fol.jpg
 
Flash said:
There was a big increase in turnout in the Georgia primary for both the Democrats and Republicans. I don't like laws that restrict voting, but I have yet to see any evidence of voter suppression despite all the predictions based on the Georgia election laws.
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You know turnout is one thing and results are another. Redistricting stacks the deck. It's dishonest and unAmerican.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Lurch,



The 2nd says nothing about guns. It says arms. Nukes are arms. You would be in compliance with the second to do that. That is because the 2nd is outdated.
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the 2nd was a restriction on the Federal government. states could and did restrict arms all the time
 
Dutch Uncle said:
They can't afford the gas. Cheaper to live in the car near a bus stop.

Our government leaders have been robbing the till for decades now. The infrastructure is failing, we're in debt up to our eyeballs and there are no financial reserves to help during times like this. Notice that in the Great Recession it was the middle class who took a hit, not the stock market.

If the middle class was losing money during the Great Recession and the stock market was making money, then who was making the money?
Click to expand...

The stock owners. Millions of middle class have retirement accounts that made them money and many retire with over $1 million. The stock market was not making money during the entire recession. It took a big drop (about 40%) in 2008 and by around 2012 had largely returned to the former level. People only lost money if they sold.

I don't think anybody was robbing the till. Politicians were spending to please Democratic and Republican voters who want more spending on military, Social Security, Medicare, social programs like TANF, SNAP, Earned Income Tax Credit, education funding, infrastructure, stimulus checks, child tax credit......

You are right--we spend (borrow) too much, but voters want that spending (for stuff they like). 9/11 results in more spending for security, mass shootings result in more for hardening schools, immigration problems result in more money for walls and border agents.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
You know turnout is one thing and results are another. Redistricting stacks the deck. It's dishonest and unAmerican.
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Redistricting has nothing to do with voter turnout which increased despite tighter election laws. Redistricting has nothing to do with state-wide elections like governor and U. S. Senators. If it is unAmerican the U. S. has been unAmerican since the early 1800's.
 
AssHatZombie said:
absolutely wrong.

these certain rights are protected by the federal government. states may not transgress these safeguards.
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They did not transgress anything since the entire Bill of Rights applied only to the federal government until 1925-2010.

A state could not violate the 2nd Amendment until the SC applied it to the states in 2010. State laws and constitutions did restrict states.
 
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