Time to plan ahead for possible dark futures. (Civil discussion).

[domer76]

Gardening is not the solution to getting most of your calories, but it is an excellent solution to getting a diverse healthy diet.

I was amazed that there are still 30 pound bags of rice in the local grocery stores. I assumed everyone would grab one. Rice is a very storable, great source of calories. Canned soups can be used to add some flavor. Grow some vegetables to make sure you get all your vitamins.

Eating lots of rice with beans and used with meats to stretch things. I do buy 30 pounds at a time.

 

[Darth Omar]

This is hilarious. You're just like Trump. He's just an innocent bystander, with no power to stop a marauding Fauci or "cheering Dems."

I wish you could hear yourself. Trump OWNS this economy, and always will. No one cares how it was at the beginning of the year. He blew it, and now we all have to deal w/ it.

Well, would your head explode if Trump fired Fauci today lol?

And can you think of a past or future president who wouldn’t have followed Fauci’s guidelines in late March or early April?

Trump wanted to open up on April 12th. Which side of the aisle had the loudest voices against that? We both know the answer.

It’s the Fauci economy and the left cheered and begged for it.

 

[BartenderElite]

Well, would your head explode if Trump fired Fauci today lol?

And can you think of a past or future president who wouldn’t have followed Fauci’s guidelines in late March or early April?

Trump wanted to open up on April 12th. Which side of the aisle had the loudest voices against that? We both know the answer.

It’s the Fauci economy and the left cheered and begged for it.

Interesting narrative. Completely false, but interesting.

I'm surprised Trump has NOT fired Fauci. He hates anyone who disagrees w/ him. And he alone can fix it...remember?

I don't even think Fox would feel good about calling this the "Fauci economy," but you'd know better on that. Doesn't matter - it won't play with indies, which is why Trump (much as he likes to blame everyone else) won't even try it.

There aren't many silver linings to what's going on. But it's fun watching you guys try to spin this away from Trump.

 

[Darth Omar]

Interesting narrative. Completely false, but interesting.

I'm surprised Trump has NOT fired Fauci. He hates anyone who disagrees w/ him. And he alone can fix it...remember?

I don't even think Fox would feel good about calling this the "Fauci economy," but you'd know better on that. Doesn't matter - it won't play with indies, which is why Trump (much as he likes to blame everyone else) won't even try it.

There aren't many silver linings to what's going on. But it's fun watching you guys try to spin this away from Trump.

You’re saying Trump made a mistake in following Fauci’s guidelines?

Take a stand.

Technically, this rests with the governors because each state was shutdown on the order of their respective governors. They could have ignored Fauci.

Which governors are dragging their feet the worst on opening up, Democrat or Republican?

 

[BartenderElite]

You’re saying Trump made a mistake in following Fauci’s guidelines?

Take a stand.

Technically, this rests with the governors because each state was shutdown on the order of their respective governors. They could have ignored Fauci.

Which governors are dragging their feet the worst on opening up, Democrat or Republican?

You know what Trump's biggest mistake was? Not having clarity, in his own head or publicly. He tried to have it both ways. One day, he supported shutdowns, the next, he was tweeting "Liberate Michigan!" Americans don't know if the admin is coming or going. He's made a mess of things w/ his indecisiveness and trying to play both sides constantly.

And, his biggest crime - by FAR - was ignoring internal intel he was getting on this in February, and assuring Americans we had this contained and would max out at 15 (sound familiar?)

I wouldn't say some governors are "dragging their feet." Some states are very hard hit - they're being careful & re-opening in stages (oh - which is per CDC guidelines). They're trying to be smart - instead of rushing to open and putting us right back at square one, which would be completely devastating.

Anyhoo, good luck running against Fauci in November. I'm sure that will fly w/ undecided voters.

 

[Darth Omar]

You know what Trump's biggest mistake was? Not having clarity, in his own head or publicly. He tried to have it both ways. One day, he supported shutdowns, the next, he was tweeting "Liberate Michigan!" Americans don't know if the admin is coming or going. He's made a mess of things w/ his indecisiveness and trying to play both sides constantly.

And, his biggest crime - by FAR - was ignoring internal intel he was getting on this in February, and assuring Americans we had this contained and would max out at 15 (sound familiar?)

I wouldn't say some governors are "dragging their feet." Some states are very hard hit - they're being careful & re-opening in stages (oh - which is per CDC guidelines). They're trying to be smart - instead of rushing to open and putting us right back at square one, which would be completely devastating.

Anyhoo, good luck running against Fauci in November. I'm sure that will fly w/ undecided voters.

So lol, did Trump make a mistake in following Fauci’s economically ruinous recommendations or not?

 

[BartenderElite]

So lol, did Trump make a mistake in following Fauci’s economically ruinous recommendations or not?

We waited too long. Can you imagine if we started this in February? The difference would have been dramatic.

Why don't you take a stand now? Do you think we should never have shut down? Even with such severe measures, we'll probably go past 200,000 dead by year's end. What do you think that would have been without any shut down whatsoever?

 

[tsuke]

Things will likely open up too soon again. It seems some were already trying in Europe but they scurried back under the rock when cases increased too fast. Time to jump ahead and get self-supplied. I recommend finding that green thumb no matter where you live and get busy. Yes, even city-dwellers have options. I would also go local for meat and fruit as much as possible. Often more expensive but exponentially safer and reliable. You can also forage yourselves. Yes, once again even cities often have options not too far off. It's up to you to find the best options. My pup adores her green beans and I bought a 4 oz pack of just that to grow. We already have fresh asparagus growing fast. If not watching carefully they can go from not quite there to overgrown and woody. If you have large acreage consider growing a community garden even. It's nice to help the neighbors.

Lighter ban list including Tapatalk user Teflon Don. So no excuse if you post since it's announced.

What I dont understand is if the goal is to make sure no one gets covid ever then why are we still allowing things like grocery stores, uber eats, etc? After all they can spread the inifection right?

Unless the left is telling me that they have made a calculated to choice to let some people die for this economic activity.

 

[Darth Omar]

We waited too long. Can you imagine if we started this in February? The difference would have been dramatic.

Why don't you take a stand now? Do you think we should never have shut down? Even with such severe measures, we'll probably go past 200,000 dead by year's end. What do you think that would have been without any shut down whatsoever?

Speculation and it’s baseless.

Politically, no governor was going to shut down their state in February. That would be like instituting post-9/11 airport safe guards in March of 2001. I doubt there would be one governor who would have climbed out that political limb in February.

So, Trump made a mistake in following Fauci’s guidelines or not?

 

[BartenderElite]

Speculation and it’s baseless.

Politically, no governor was going to shut down their state in February. That would be like instituting post-9/11 airport safe guards in March of 2001. I doubt there would be one governor who would have climbed out that political limb in February.

So, Trump made a mistake in following Fauci’s guidelines or not?

What part of it is "baseless"?

Is anything past "61" baseless? We don't have to speculate on where you stood on this, just 2 months ago. You were as wrong as you possibly could be.

Leaders should make decisions based on the scientific evidence at the time, and other considerations, like the economy. Please be specific w/ Fauci's guidelines: which did Trump go all in on, and when?

 

[Geeko Sportivo]

Yup, if there are dark times ahead it will be because we fall into a full-blown Depression. No guarantees we will recover or the country will be what it once was.

And we did it to ourselves, on purpose, over the prospect of what *might happen*.

Future historians will not be kind to us. I expect the word ‘cowards’ to be used quite a lot

I expect Historians will be using the term Trumptards a lot!

 

[Darth Omar]

What part of it is "baseless"?

Is anything past "61" baseless? We don't have to speculate on where you stood on this, just 2 months ago. You were as wrong as you possibly could be.

Leaders should make decisions based on the scientific evidence at the time, and other considerations, like the economy. Please be specific w/ Fauci's guidelines: which did Trump go all in on, and when?

You keep tap-dancing around a simple question lol.

The reason I want to know is because if you [or anyone] thinks Trump did the right thing in following Fauci’s guidelines; it follows that they can’t fault Trump for the *economic consequences* of Trump following a Fauci’s guidelines.

Because they were basically asking for it.

You can’t have it both ways. Anyone who was on Fauci’s side through all this can’t bitch about economic consequences of it or blame Trump for it.

Because for all intents—this economy has Fauci’s name written all over it.

 

[BartenderElite]

You keep tap-dancing around a simple question lol.

The reason I want to know is because if you [or anyone] thinks Trump did the right thing in following Fauci’s guidelines; it follows that they can’t fault Trump for the *economic consequences* of Trump following a Fauci’s guidelines.

Because they were basically asking for it.

You can’t have it both ways. Anyone who was on Fauci’s side through all this can’t bitch about economic consequences of it or blame Trump for it.

Because for all intents—this economy has Fauci’s name written all over it.

Wow - that's one of the clumsiest "gotcha" attempts I've ever seen. At least you admitted to it.

Fauci has done his job. It's not science's job to make overall recommendations with regard to the economy. If the healthcare community was making the decision, based on their priorities, we wouldn't leave our houses until there was a vaccine, and it was safely administered to every citizen.

You still don't seem to understand this: that is the President's job, as chief executive. His task force should have always been more diverse, and put equal weight on healthcare, science, economy and other factors. Then it's HIS job to take each of those recommendations, and make the best possible decision in favor of life & livelihood.

If he really wants to go w/ "Fauci told me to do it!", he'll look extremely weak and incapable of the job he's been given.

 

[BartenderElite]

I'll take it a step further: where are the economic analytics in all of this?

Where are the models giving Trump information on the effects of such widespread unemployment? Where are the metrics on higher mortality due to avoidance of hospitals and doctors offices? Where is the data on increased addiction to alcohol and opiods, and suicide rates?

A real leader needs that. He needs to look at both shutting down and opening up, and determine where the former is more destructive than the latter. He needs to LEAD.

It's 101-type stuff. This admin is lost.

 

[Darth Omar]

What I dont understand is if the goal is to make sure no one gets covid ever then why are we still allowing things like grocery stores, uber eats, etc? After all they can spread the inifection right?

Unless the left is telling me that they have made a calculated to choice to let some people die for this economic activity.

Yup.

The lockdown 4-ever crowd typically aren’t essential workers. They’re content to stay at home and wait for the vaccine while the essentials keep the country running and delivering their Amazon orders on time.

 

[Darth Omar]

Wow - that's one of the clumsiest "gotcha" attempts I've ever seen. At least you admitted to it.

Fauci has done his job. It's not science's job to make overall recommendations with regard to the economy. If the healthcare community was making the decision, based on their priorities, we wouldn't leave our houses until there was a vaccine, and it was safely administered to every citizen.

You still don't seem to understand this: that is the President's job, as chief executive. His task force should have always been more diverse, and put equal weight on healthcare, science, economy and other factors. Then it's HIS job to take each of those recommendations, and make the best possible decision in favor of life & livelihood.

If he really wants to go w/ "Fauci told me to do it!", he'll look extremely weak and incapable of the job he's been given.

Ok lol, you approve of Trump following Fauci’s recommendations and are willing to accept their economic consequences.

Am I right or wrong?

 

[dukkha]

We waited too long. Can you imagine if we started this in February? The difference would have been dramatic.

hindsight is 20/20 shutting down the economy was the most possible drastic measure taken by Trump at Fauci's advice -but he didn't do it until it was evident the WHO was wrong. Mid Feb they were still not calling for drastic measures.

The states had little PPE on hand as well . Trump launched a combination of government/business partnership
that got us what we needed so quickly (like ventillators) we made enough to send overseas relief.
When companies like 3M still shipped masks to China Trump used the Defense Production Act to stop it.

The proof is is the limited dead - most of them came from stupid state decisions like Cuomo on nursing homes.

Of course you will never say anything but "Trump lied / people died" much less credit Trump
for that and banning Chinese flights

 

[Irish]

Things will likely open up too soon again. It seems some were already trying in Europe but they scurried back under the rock when cases increased too fast. Time to jump ahead and get self-supplied. I recommend finding that green thumb no matter where you live and get busy. Yes, even city-dwellers have options. I would also go local for meat and fruit as much as possible. Often more expensive but exponentially safer and reliable. You can also forage yourselves. Yes, once again even cities often have options not too far off. It's up to you to find the best options. My pup adores her green beans and I bought a 4 oz pack of just that to grow. We already have fresh asparagus growing fast. If not watching carefully they can go from not quite there to overgrown and woody. If you have large acreage consider growing a community garden even. It's nice to help the neighbors.

Lighter ban list including Tapatalk user Teflon Don. So no excuse if you post since it's announced.

 

[tsuke]

I'll take it a step further: where are the economic analytics in all of this?

Where are the models giving Trump information on the effects of such widespread unemployment? Where are the metrics on higher mortality due to avoidance of hospitals and doctors offices? Where is the data on increased addiction to alcohol and opiods, and suicide rates?

A real leader needs that. He needs to look at both shutting down and opening up, and determine where the former is more destructive than the latter. He needs to LEAD.

It's 101-type stuff. This admin is lost.

The funny thing is if trump did shut all this down in the middle of his impeachment you would be the first to cry foul lol.

 

[BartenderElite]

The funny thing is if trump did shut all this down in the middle of his impeachment you would be the first to cry foul lol.

Based on....?

I don't know what the answer is on the shutdowns. It's not my job to know.

What I do know is that Trump downplayed the virus throughout Februrary, when the information he was getting contradicted his statements, and at a time when early action could have had a huge impact on the damage done.

Trump hasn't known what to do here. His inexperience has been exposed in the worst way. As I said before, I don't know why he didn't have a much more expanded task force, with the top people in medicine, economics, analytics, et al., to compile a much more complete picture regarding the impact of shutting down vs. a more open approach, and make a sound executive decision based on that data.

Instead, it's been all about his "gut," and wishful thinking. It's the worst possible leadership during a crisis like this.