Trump calls for Supreme Court to reconsider flag burning laws amid protests

StoneByStone said:
I know you're not saying Obama supporters are Socialist or Communist. What I'm saying is that supporting Trump actually is supporting Fascism, but supporting Obama is not supporting Socialism or Communism. That's what makes it a False Equivalence. And I included a link to show why Trump, or at the very least his policies, is Fascist.

I'm all for saying both sides are wrong when both sides actually are wrong. I'll never defend either side that fought in WWII. But when it comes to the modern American Left and Right, there is no comparison. The Left has plenty of problems, but the Right is literally Fascist.
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But you are making false claims. Since Trump has done nothing dictatorial that destroys the fascist comparison and makes it as inaccurate as socialist or communist claims. That eliminates the "false equivalency" claim.

When both sides think they are morally superior you know it is more partisan preference than morality.

Conservatives/Republicans/Trump supporters think they are better because liberals are "immoral." They point to abortion, the "war on Christianity," lack of support for religious freedom, and gay marriage as immoral. Whether these things are true is not the issue, it is their belief in their moral superiority.
 
StoneByStone said:
TBH, I don't believe Trump is serious at all. I think it's yet another attempt at a distraction. But the fact that it's working, and the Right is agreeing with him, is pretty scary.
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That is nothing new (or scary). The right has long opposed the court decisions striking down those laws. With the economy and virus and race issues Trump needs to turn to patriotism as a safe (and emotional) issue for his supporters. It doesn't really seem to be getting much traction.
 
Flash said:
That is nothing new (or scary). The right has long opposed the court decisions striking down those laws. With the economy and virus and race issues Trump needs to turn to patriotism as a safe (and emotional) issue for his supporters. It doesn't really seem to be getting much traction.
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Yeah, Fascism has always been present on the Right, ever since the Left/Right divide started in France. But throughout history, the Right has moved further and closer to either Fascism or Centrism, depending on the time. Any time it moves closer to Fascism, we should be concerned.
 
Flash said:
But you are making false claims. Since Trump has done nothing dictatorial that destroys the fascist comparison and makes it as inaccurate as socialist or communist claims. That eliminates the "false equivalency" claim.
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Democracies don't just become Fascist out of nowhere. There are steps that lead to the change. Trump hits all 14 points on the list that I posted and he tried to cheat in two elections. Yeah, he hasn't eliminated free speech or elections, but that's only because he doesn't have the power to do so yet. The Fascist moves he has been able to make, he has.

Conservatives/Republicans/Trump supporters think they are better because liberals are "immoral." They point to abortion, the "war on Christianity," lack of support for religious freedom, and gay marriage as immoral. Whether these things are true is not the issue, it is their belief in their moral superiority.
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But all of those things can be rationally explained away. They're objectively incorrect claims. Saying these things are equivalent is like calling evolution and religion "different schools of thought."
 
StoneByStone said:
Democracies don't just become Fascist out of nowhere. There are steps that lead to the change. Trump hits all 14 points on the list that I posted and he tried to cheat in two elections. Yeah, he hasn't eliminated free speech or elections, but that's only because he doesn't have the power to do so yet. The Fascist moves he has been able to make, he has.



But all of those things can be rationally explained away. They're objectively incorrect claims. Saying these things are equivalent is like calling evolution and religion "different schools of thought."
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you're a moron

trump is pushing back on corporatism run amock, which is what globalism and fascism are, corporatism.
 
AssHatZombie said:
so you agree we need someone more antiglobalist? he has tariffed china. it's hard to turn things around in four years.

is biden your anti globalist hero?
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isolationism died in Wilson's time. Are you living in the past? What kind of mental anachronism are you?
 
StoneByStone said:
Democracies don't just become Fascist out of nowhere. There are steps that lead to the change. Trump hits all 14 points on the list that I posted and he tried to cheat in two elections. Yeah, he hasn't eliminated free speech or elections, but that's only because he doesn't have the power to do so yet. The Fascist moves he has been able to make, he has.
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That is the essential point. If a president, Congress, etc. does not have the power to impose dictatorial policies then they are not dictators nor fascists. Suggesting Trump wants to eliminate free speech or elections is just scare mongering or very unlikely predictions. It reminds me of conservatives who feared Obama was going to declare martial law and cancel the 2016 election and JPP liberals who claim Trump is going to cancel the 2020 elections. It is an irrational fear or attempt to sway others. Those 14 points are so broad as to fit almost anything.

StoneByStone said:
But all of those things can be rationally explained away. They're objectively incorrect claims. Saying these things are equivalent is like calling evolution and religion "different schools of thought."
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That is why I said it doesn't matter if they are right. We were talking about levels of morality which is based on beliefs. You cannot explain those things away to conservatives just like I cannot rationally explain away some of your beliefs. For example, it is irrational to make the fascism charge since we have not experienced any of those events or conditions ("yet" in your view). However, you strongly believe that and think such fascism is immoral making you more moral.

And there is nothing objective or rational about issues like abortion which is a moral belief. Conservatives can equally claim they are more moral and think they can explain away your "incorrect claims." You can give them an explanation to try to prove they are wrong but they will not accept that explanation and try to prove you are wrong.

One side might be more objectively correct about some issues but that does not make them more moral. Thus, the moral equivalence. To be morally equivalent each side would have to respect the views of those on the other side and love them as individuals; otherwise, both are immorally equivalent.
 
Flash said:
I never suggested Obama was socialist or communist--that is crazy right-wing labeling just as calling Trump a fascist is crazy left-wing labeling (although the conversation was about Trump supporters).

Calling something a false equivalence demonstrates the moral superiority both sides believe they represent. Many Trump supporters make the same self-righteous rhetoric you are claiming for your side.
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Obama is a socialist. He advocates bigger government and control of every aspect of your life by the government.
 
Flash said:
Trump's attack on the press is mostly rhetoric to appeal to his supporters. Free press means the freedom to publish whatever they choose and we see multiple anti-Trump columns daily. He can "threaten" freedom of the press but can do nothing to actually restrict it. Press conferences do not constitute press freedom and under Trump are fairly useless.

The left did not believe elections were fair in 2004 or 2016 and blamed their loss on some guy who had an interest in the voting machines in Ohio in 2004 and the Russians in 2016.

Claiming some kind of moral and ethical superiority of one party is just partisan blindness.
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Publishing fiction as 'the news' is a lie. Trump is only pointing out the fake news for what they are.
 
Flash said:
If it is expressing a political viewpoint it is just as much speech as verbal expression.

The states are not interpreting speech to include burning a flag--that interpretation was handed down in a Supreme Court opinion that the states are legally bound to follow.
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The States are NOT legally bound to follow it. The Court does not have authority to change the Constitution.
 
Flash said:
It is no really a "move" but just rhetoric. The Supreme Court cannot reconsider this issue unless there is a case based on state or federal law making flag burning a criminal offense.
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The court does not have authority to change or interpret the Constitution.
 
StoneByStone said:
I know you're not saying Obama supporters are Socialist or Communist. What I'm saying is that supporting Trump actually is supporting Fascism, but supporting Obama is not supporting Socialism or Communism. That's what makes it a False Equivalence. And I included a link to show why Trump, or at the very least his policies, is Fascist.

I'm all for saying both sides are wrong when both sides actually are wrong. I'll never defend either side that fought in WWII. But when it comes to the modern American Left and Right, there is no comparison. The Left has plenty of problems, but the Right is literally Fascist.
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Buzzword fallacy. TDS. Learn what 'fascism' means.
 
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