Trump May Face 25 Years in Prison, Be Blocked From Future Office: Kirschner

ThatOwlWoman said:
I did not say that. I've been merely pointing out that the Reichwingers have been after her for decades yet cannot make anything stick. If she broke the law and they have the evidence and file charges and she is convicted, then yes, she should pay the penalty. But the fact remains that despite years of investigations as well as (R) hegemony in the WH and the congress and Justice Dept., she is still walking free. Why is that?
Click to expand...

But the fact remains that despite years of investigations as well as (R) hegemony in the WH and the congress and Justice Dept., she is still walking free. Why is that?
Click to expand...
The answer is she is an extremely intelligent woman and a very accomplished lawyer. A person who knows how to lie in such a way as to convince others she didn't really understand that she was lying or breaking the law.

Here is an excerpt from FBI director Comey during his briefing to congress. "In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here." Translation: Yes there were laws broken but it was unintentional! I may be mistaken but not meaning to break the law is not an excuse!
https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-rele...-clinton2019s-use-of-a-personal-e-mail-system

If you go back and look at all the investigations you will see the same pattern of forgiveness. This is a perfect example that there are two sets of rules one for the elite and one for the rest of us unwashed masses.
 
Eagle_Eye said:
The answer is she is an extremely intelligent woman and a very accomplished lawyer. A person who knows how to lie in such a way as to convince others she didn't really understand that she was lying or breaking the law.

Here is an excerpt from FBI director Comey during his briefing to congress. "In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here." Translation: Yes there were laws broken but it was unintentional! I may be mistaken but not meaning to break the law is not an excuse!
https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-rele...-clinton2019s-use-of-a-personal-e-mail-system

If you go back and look at all the investigations you will see the same pattern of forgiveness. This is a perfect example that there are two sets of rules one for the elite and one for the rest of us unwashed masses.
Click to expand...

Oh, I definitely agree that bigwigs get away with (sometimes) literally murder. I used to work for a major defense contractor, known as McDonnell-Douglas. Had a top secret clearance because some of the documents we worked with were highly classified. The building had checkpoints and anyone entering or leaving had to show the contents of their briefcases or purses. If I had been caught sneaking a classified document out, I would have been looking at years in prison, even if I claimed that I was taking it home to work on there, or "Oh, dear, I don't know HOW that got in there."

The fact that #TRE45ON had boxes full of classified stuff -- that he knowingly REFUSED to return -- is far more egregious that Clinton or Powell's transgressions. I hope to the gods that he pays for that, as well as for fomenting an insurrection, obstruction, etc. They now have PROOF that what he did was, in Comey's words, "intentional and willful."
 
Eagle_Eye said:
The answer is she is an extremely intelligent woman and a very accomplished lawyer. A person who knows how to lie in such a way as to convince others she didn't really understand that she was lying or breaking the law.

Here is an excerpt from FBI director Comey during his briefing to congress. "In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here." Translation: Yes there were laws broken but it was unintentional! I may be mistaken but not meaning to break the law is not an excuse!
https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-rele...-clinton2019s-use-of-a-personal-e-mail-system

If you go back and look at all the investigations you will see the same pattern of forgiveness. This is a perfect example that there are two sets of rules one for the elite and one for the rest of us unwashed masses.
Click to expand...

He said no court would prosecute such a flimsy case.
 
Eagle_Eye said:
That was an opinion. People have been convicted on a lot less, but they weren't part of the Washington elite.
Click to expand...

I read the statement over again. It is not an opinion. It is a judgment based on the evidence, which he discusses in detail. Furthermore, it is a recommendation. It was up to the DOJ to decide whether to act or not upon the report. They chose not to act.

Although there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past.

In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.

To be clear, this is not to suggest that in similar circumstances, a person who engaged in this activity would face no consequences. To the contrary, those individuals are often subject to security or administrative sanctions. But that is not what we are deciding now.

As a result, although the Department of Justice makes final decisions on matters like this, we are expressing to Justice our view that no charges are appropriate in this case.

I know there will be intense public debate in the wake of this recommendation, as there was throughout this investigation. What I can assure the American people is that this investigation was done competently, honestly, and independently. No outside influence of any kind was brought to bear.

I know there were many opinions expressed by people who were not part of the investigation—including people in government—but none of that mattered to us. Opinions are irrelevant, and they were all uninformed by insight into our investigation, because we did the investigation the right way. Only facts matter, and the FBI found them here in an entirely apolitical and professional way. I couldn’t be prouder to be part of this organization.
Click to expand...
 
Eagle_Eye said:
That was an opinion. People have been convicted on a lot less, but they weren't part of the Washington elite.
Click to expand...

An opinion from the head of the FBI carries a lot more weight than your puerile opinion. Trump did a lot more so you must be demanding that he face prosecution.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
I read the statement over again. It is not an opinion. It is a judgment based on the evidence, which he discusses in detail. Furthermore, it is a recommendation. It was up to the DOJ to decide whether to act or not upon the report. They chose not to act.
Click to expand...

I disagree Comey was stating an opinion when he said no prosecutors would go to trial with such evidence. One cannot say what another might do in a case such as this.
 
Nordberg said:
An opinion from the head of the FBI carries a lot more weight than your puerile opinion. Trump did a lot more so you must be demanding that he face prosecution.
Click to expand...

By jove I think you've got it. Yes I want to see Trump answer for his crimes.
 
The only problem with Draconian punishments is that people who behave like Trump have to be batshit crazy.
Essentially, we punish people for being mentally ill--it all goes back to perverse, biblical concepts of what comprises guilt.

I strongly believe in humane euthanasia instead of punishment.
Anesthesia before the lethal injection makes all the difference in the world.
That's not punishment. That's just bringing them to peace.
 
Nordberg said:
An opinion by the head of the FBI working with legal experts.
Click to expand...


We're supposed to convict people on evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, not opinions.

That's why drone strikes are more efficient than trials, but if we're going to have trials, we need a more refined process than we have now.
I've served on juries with absolute idiots empaneled on them.
At the very least, a degree from an accredited university should be required.
 
Eagle_Eye said:
It is still an opinion!

I'm not saying he is right or wrong only that it is a SWAG.
Scientific Wild Assed Guess.
Click to expand...

You are dismissing the opinion of the FBI and experts and supplanting them with your vulpine opinion. Legal opinions are not like yours. They are based on fact, evidence, and the law.
 
Eagle_Eye said:
I disagree Comey was stating an opinion when he said no prosecutors would go to trial with such evidence. One cannot say what another might do in a case such as this.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Comey was being a good soldier and doing as his boss ordered.
 
Nordberg said:
You are dismissing the opinion of the FBI and experts and supplanting them with your vulpine opinion. Legal opinions are not like yours. They are based on fact, evidence, and the law.
Click to expand...

Then you admit it is an opinion. As an electronics tech I annalize why a piece of equipment is malfunctioning, and form an opinion as to the cause based, on knowledge, electronic principals, and experience. The same as a court. Thus an opinion is just that an opinion until it becomes a proven fact.
 
Eagle_Eye said:
The answer is she is an extremely intelligent woman and a very accomplished lawyer. A person who knows how to lie in such a way as to convince others she didn't really understand that she was lying or breaking the law.

Here is an excerpt from FBI director Comey during his briefing to congress. "In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here." Translation: Yes there were laws broken but it was unintentional! I may be mistaken but not meaning to break the law is not an excuse!
https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-rele...-clinton2019s-use-of-a-personal-e-mail-system

If you go back and look at all the investigations you will see the same pattern of forgiveness. This is a perfect example that there are two sets of rules one for the elite and one for the rest of us unwashed masses.
Click to expand...

Agreed. It's the same free pass Trump got since 2016 and two impeachments. The problem for Pedo Don is that neither the IRS or individual states are affected (much) by Washington politics.

IMO, all the bullshit Trump pulled in office will be forgiven as a Washington elistist, except for his tax fraud and the classified material violations, due to their extreme nature.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
So why didn't #TRE45ON -- with his (R) majority and his loyal DOJ appointees -- "go after" Hillary? He even used "Lock Her Up" as a chant, remember that?

Maybe someone figured out, finally, that there was no there there.
Click to expand...

Yep, even Comey, a registered Republican concluded that Hillary's actions were stupid, not criminal. Like someone else mentioned in this thread, if we prosecuted Hillary for using a personal email account, we'd have to go after hundreds of others, like Colin Powell (RIP).
 
Eagle_Eye said:
Do I see a double standard here? You disagree with Trump therefore he should pay for breaking the law! But You agree with Hillary therefore she should be above the laws she broke!
Click to expand...

Stealing top secret documents and taking them to an unsecured place where foreign agents often come is not the same as using a personal email account.

Sorry, your whataboutism fails.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top