US COVID-19 deaths by Election Day

Will US COVID-19 deaths exceed the 62,000 by Election Day?


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Hello Dutch Uncle,

None of which changes the observation that Democrats are just as authoritarian and greedy for power as the Republicans.

Obama's focus on healthcare over the economy in his first six months is seen by many as a mistake.

Example: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/18/opinion/obama-2008-financial-crisis.html
In 2009, Barack Obama was the most powerful newly elected American president in a generation. Democrats controlled the House and, for about five months in the second half of the year, they enjoyed a filibuster-proof, 60-vote majority in the Senate. For the first six months of his presidency, Obama had an approval rating in the 60s.

Democrats also had a once-in-a-lifetime political opportunity presented by a careening global crisis. Across the country, people were losing jobs and homes in numbers not seen since World War II. Just as in the 1930s, the Republican Party’s economic policies were widely thought to have caused the crisis, and Obama and his fellow Democrats were swept into office on a throw-the-bums-out wave.

If he’d been in the mood to press the case, Obama might have found widespread public appetite for the sort of aggressive, interventionist restructuring of the American economy that Franklin D. Roosevelt conjured with the New Deal. One of the inspiring new president’s advisers even hinted that was the plan.

“You never want a serious crisis to go to waste,” Rahm Emanuel, Obama’s chief of staff, said days after the 2008 election.

And then Obama took office. And rather than try for a Rooseveltian home run, he bunted: Instead of pushing for an aggressive stimulus to rapidly expand employment and long-term structural reforms in how the economy worked, Obama and his team responded to the recession with a set of smaller emergency measures designed to fix the immediate collapse of financial markets. They succeeded: The recession didn’t turn into a depression, markets were stabilized, and the United States began a period of long, slow growth.

But they could have done so much more. By the time Obama took office, job losses had accelerated so quickly that his advisers calculated the country would need $1.7 trillion in additional spending to get back to full employment. A handful of advisers favored a very large government stimulus of $1.2 trillion; some outside economists — Paul Krugman, Joseph Stiglitz, James Galbraith — also favored going to a trillion.

But Obama’s closest advisers declined to push Congress for anything more than $800 billion, which they projected would reduce unemployment to below 8 percent by the 2010 midterms. They were wrong; the stimulus did reduce job losses, but it was far too small to hit the stated goal — unemployment was 9.8 percent in November 2010.

Obama’s advisers also rejected ideas for large infrastructure projects. They offered a plan to prevent just 1.5 million foreclosures — when, ultimately, 10 million Americans lost their homes. And they declined to push for new leadership on Wall Street, let alone much punishment for the recklessness that led to the crisis.

“He chose an economic recovery plan that benefited educated, well-off people much more than the middle class,” writes Reed Hundt, a Democrat who is a former chairman of the Federal Communications Commission, in his recent history of Obama’s first two years, “A Crisis Wasted.”

A lot of this might be excusable; it was an emergency, and Obama and his team did what they could. But Obama’s longer record on the economy is also coming under fire from the left. The Obama people — many of whom came to the White House from Wall Street and left it for Silicon Valley — seemed entirely too comfortable with the ongoing corporatization of America.

In the Obama years, the government let corporations get bigger and economic power grow more concentrated. Obama’s regulators declined to push antimonopoly measures against Google and Facebook, against airlines and against big food and agriculture companies.

It is true that Obama succeeded in passing a groundbreaking universal health care law. It’s also true that over the course of his presidency, inequality grew, and Obama did little to stop it. While much of the rest of the country struggled to get by, the wealthy got wealthier and multimillionaires and billionaires achieved greater political and cultural power.

What’s the point of returning to this history now, a decade later? Think of it as a cautionary tale — a story that ought to rank at the top of mind for a Democratic electorate that is now choosing between Obama’s vice president and progressives like Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren, who had pushed Obama, during the recovery, to adopt policies with more egalitarian economic effects.

From this distance, the history favors Warren’s approach. As Hundt notes, not only did Obama’s policy ideas produce lackluster economic results (at least in that they failed to hit their stated goals), they failed politically, too. The sluggish recovery in Obama’s first years led to a huge loss for Democrats in the 2010 midterms. Obama was re-elected, but during his time in office, Democrats saw declining national support — and in 2016, of course, they lost the White House to Donald Trump, an outcome that Warren has tied directly to Obama’s early economic decisions.

Why had Obama chosen this elitist path? Another new book, “Goliath: The 100-Year War Between Monopoly Power and Democracy,” by the antimonopoly scholar Matt Stoller, provides a deeply researched answer. It boils down to this: Obama, like Bill Clinton before him, was the product of a Democratic Party that had forgotten its history and legacy. For much of the 20th century, Democrats’ fundamental politics involved fighting against concentrations of economic power in favor of the rights and liberties of ordinary people. “The fight has always been about whether monopolists run our world, or about whether we the people do,” Stoller writes.

But in the 1970s, ’80s and ’90s, as Stoller explains, Democrats altered their economic vision. They abandoned New Deal and Great Society liberalism in favor of a new dogma that came to be known as neoliberalism — a view of society in which markets and financial instruments, rather than government policy and direct intervention, are seen as the best way to achieve social ends.

Obama’s biggest ideas were neoliberal: The Affordable Care Act, his greatest domestic policy achievement, improved access to health care by altering private health-insurance markets. Obama aimed to address the climate crisis by setting up a market for carbon, and his plan for improving education focused on technocratic, standards-based reform. Even Obama’s historical icons were neoliberal — the neoliberals’ patron saint being Alexander Hamilton, the elitist, banker-friendly founding father who would be transformed, in Obama’s neoliberal Camelot, into a beloved immigrant striver with very good flow.

It is tricky to criticize Obama from the left in the Trump era. There’s still widespread nostalgia and good feeling for Obama as a political figure — and, considering the disaster of the current administration, it feels almost churlish to re-examine his years in office. There are also a range of good defenses for Obama’s policies. “I have no doubt that when historians look back on the Obama years, he will and should be given credit for preventing a second Great Depression,” Christina Romer, one of the advisers who had pushed for much greater stimulus, told me.

Obama’s policies were also perfectly in line with prevailing orthodoxy — it’s likely that Hillary Clinton would have pursued similar measures if she’d won the 2008 primary. It is also worth noting that, ahem, parts of the punditocracy shared his market-fetishizing philosophy: I wrote skeptically of antitrust prosecution against Google in 2009, 2010, and 2015.

But that’s exactly why I found Stoller’s book so insightful. The long history of Democratic populism is unknown to most liberals today. Only now, in the age of Sanders and Warren and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, are we beginning to relearn the lessons of the past. For at least three decades, neoliberalism has brought the left economic half-measures and political despair. It’s time to demand more.

A good discussion.

A note to add to it:

Obama campaigned heavily on health care reform, and was elected with a mandate to follow through. The economic crash came late in the campaign. It would have been quite difficult for him to put that on the back burner, but I would have agreed with it if he did. He knew is was going to cost him big political capital to get it done but was determined to follow through on a promise. Of course, to the right, nothing he could have done would have been lauded. He would be attacked for not doing it sooner if he invented perpetual motion and harnessed it to pay off the debt and eliminate taxes.
 
None of which changes the observation that Democrats are just as authoritarian and greedy for power as the Republicans.

Obama's focus on healthcare over the economy in his first six months is seen by many as a mistake.

Example: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/18/opinion/obama-2008-financial-crisis.html

Your article would seem to refute your claim about how authoritarian and greedy for power the Democrats were. According to your source they failed to pass legislation which would point to them being weak, would it not?
 
Hello Dutch Uncle,



A good discussion.

A note to add to it:

Obama campaigned heavily on health care reform, and was elected with a mandate to follow through. The economic crash came late in the campaign. It would have been quite difficult for him to put that on the back burner, but I would have agreed with it if he did. He knew is was going to cost him big political capital to get it done but was determined to follow through on a promise. Of course, to the right, nothing he could have done would have been lauded. He would be attacked for not doing it sooner if he invented perpetual motion and harnessed it to pay off the debt and eliminate taxes.

That's the rookie mistake he made: prioritizing a campaign promise over the actual needs of the nation.

Don't get me wrong; he screwed up a lot less than Trump, but it's still a major screw up. Prioritizing healthcare reform, and then beaten by the insurance companies, over the economy created a further divide among Americans than if he tackled the economy first.

You point out an accurate problem that was noted by Abraham Lincoln - one about pleasing all the people. The hard part of the job is making a decision even though it pisses off your friends. The surge in Afghanistan is an example of Obama making the right decision even though he took heat for it from his own party.

Yes, even some Republicans bitched and whined about it which goes to what you said: Obama, or any President, is going to catch flak from some people no matter what they do. It's like being online and pestered by trolls. Trolls exist, but their existence doesn't matter in the larger scheme of things. Same goes for Presidential critics. What matters is what most people think, not a handful of bitter malcontents who will never be pleased.
 
Your article would seem to refute your claim about how authoritarian and greedy for power the Democrats were. According to your source they failed to pass legislation which would point to them being weak, would it not?

No, it wouldn't. Failure is not an indicator of goals. Is Trump's failure to be a dictator proof he's not a wannabe dictator? Of course not.

Same for the Democrats. I look at Democrats and Republicans, Left and Right to be Yin-Yang; necessary opposites of each other. Each half makes the whole, like male and female make a couple. To carry that analogy further, the current parties are so extreme they rarely work with each other forming a dysfunctional couple. That's part of the problem. You are free to blame one side over the other, but the fact remains they're dysfunctional and our nation is suffering from that dysfunction.
 
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True enough on normal years. Are you saying it will be the same this year? Higher? Lower? Are you going to pussy out again and not say? If the numbers next year are a million over 2.8M, will you admit COVID-19 isn't a fake virus? Will you admit that it's worse than the Flu?

I'm fascinated that you to actually believe the CDC figures and aren't accusing them of falsifying the numbers, low balling them to make Obama look good or something equally silly.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db355.htm
NOTES: A total of 2,839,205 resident deaths were registered in the United States in 2018.

I don't buy those numbers. I think they are inflated and using bad data. I just quote them for the sake of argument. I think it is fascinating that anyone with even half a brain thinks that China's number hasn't changed for nearly a month or that the US has had 12 times more infections and 12 times more deaths from this virus.

After shutting down the economy for a month, the cases and deaths continue to be estimated higher and the experts continue saying the same stupid shit over and over again.

We will look back at the damage done here and wonder WTF we were all thinking listening to these clowns. Idiots like you will continue to tell us how Democrats are winning even after Biden gets his ass kicked.

Leftist ass clowns will continue telling us how evil progress is and that we need to further empower BIG Government to control our lives and Pelosi, if she is still the Speaker, will be trying to impeach Trump again. :rolleyes:
 
The nation could see over 62,000 Americans dead from COVID-19 by Cinco de Mayo. As sane people know, this is on top of all normal flu and other disease deaths. One thing we might see a drop in is auto deaths; people are making kamikaze attacks on each other trying to get to work because of the shutdown.

If this rate stays the same, it could be over 180,000 dead Americans from COVID-19 by Election Day.

From last March 15th:

In other words, shutting down the economy and forcing 30 to 40 million into unemployment lines didn't do a damned thing. ;)

And yet, in China where the epicenter of this outbreak occurred, not one additional case or death. IT'S A FUCKING MIRACLE!!!! I know, you think we need Communism. :rolleyes:
 
...and this year it will be 2.5 million deaths plus another 180,000+....especially if we open up the country like it was mid-January.

Biologically, it will be good to cull the herd of the weak, the elderly and the sick.

Is it better to have 3-9M dead Americans but the remaining 97% are healthy, happy and prosperous? or is it better to have 1M dead and the remaining 99% are poor and financially ruined?

3 to 9 million now? You loons and your buffoonish exaggerations know no bounds. Of course, what's 40 million unemployed right? Or $3.5 trillion in added debt right? Or thousands of bankruptcies right?

All that just to see leftist morons continue to claim we need to stay shut down until there is a vaccine. :rolleyes:
 
Losing 2000/day means we'll be pushing 180,000 by election day. Open the country up and, without a cure or vaccine, we'll see it climb to the millions.

Here's the dilemma. Our nation wasn't prepared for this. It's cut taxes and increased spending so much that it is now just printing money. So, "Is it better to have 3-9M dead Americans but the remaining 97% are healthy, happy and prosperous? or is it better to have 1M dead and the remaining 99% are poor and financially ruined?"

So shutting the economy down isn't working. :rolleyes:
 
I said to someone just a couple of months back that Elizabeth Warrens wealth tax would never be implemented. I think this may change that equation, and that's a good thing, so I think maybe even MORE than raising taxes on the rich. It makes sense. I guess that's the silver lining. I think this will cause everyone to rethink the growing wage/wealth gap.

Yeah, a wealth tax will solve all our pandemic problems won't it? Where do dumbfucks like you come from anyway?
 
ROFLMAO. TD quotes the numbers but admits he doesn't believe them. Tooooo rich!

Are you mentally retarded? What numbers would I quote? But being the low IQ fool that you appear to be, yes, China has 12 times fewer infections and deaths than the USA because....well, because someone told you so. Retard.

How about deaths JUST from catching this virus? Anyone have that data? How about the fact that these tests are unreliable and have been tainted? Is that how we are arriving at a number 12 times higher than China's? Or has China just been lying all this time and the W.H.O. is too stupid to question their data?
 
More Americans have died in one month from COVID-19 now than perished in all the years of the war in Vietnam.

I wonder if Truth Deflector thinks those figures are also fake news?

OMG!!! 80,000 die every fucking year from the common flu; and we have a vaccine for that! Are you leftists stuck on moron and incapable of getting up?

How many died JUST from the Covid? Anyone? Everyone of these deaths they are quoting were OTHER causes where COVID complicated the deaths. Nothing more.

Was destroying an economy, forcing thousands of businesses into bankruptcy and perhaps 40 million onto unemployment rolls worth it? Was burying the American taxpayer under an additional $3.5 trillion in debt worth it?

You have to be mentally unfit to believe this bullshit.

Number of deaths for leading causes of death annually:

Number of deaths: 2,813,503
Death rate: 863.8 deaths per 100,000 population
Life expectancy: 78.6 years
Infant Mortality rate: 5.79 deaths per 1,000 live births


Heart disease: 647,457
Cancer: 599,108
Accidents (unintentional injuries): 169,936
Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 160,201
Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 146,383
Alzheimer’s disease: 121,404
Diabetes: 83,564
Influenza and Pneumonia: 55,672
Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis: 50,633
Intentional self-harm (suicide): 47,173
 
More Americans have died in one month from COVID-19 now than perished in all the years of the war in Vietnam.

I wonder if Truth Deflector thinks those figures are also fake news?

Since TD only has one oar in the water, clearly he thinks whatever he wants to think. No matter. Even a million crazies can't change the facts.
 
Yeah, a wealth tax will solve all our pandemic problems won't it? Where do dumbfucks like you come from anyway?

Did you skip sex education in high school? You must have skipped reading comprehension as well. I could give you a list of courses. I'm suggesting a wealth tax will help pay down our massive debt. Was that really difficult for you to figure out? Do you do better with illustrations?
 
Did you skip sex education in high school? You must have skipped reading comprehension as well. I could give you a list of courses. I'm suggesting a wealth tax will help pay down our massive debt. Was that really difficult for you to figure out? Do you do better with illustrations?

Don't be too hard on either of the TD twins. Both shit a little too close to the house, but Truth Detector is obviously the most afflicted.
 
Don't be too hard on either of the TD twins. Both shit a little too close to the house, but Truth Detector is obviously the most afflicted.

I kinda feel bad for someone that doesn't know where people come from. Maybe I should have just said 'the stork' and left it at that :)
 
Did you skip sex education in high school? You must have skipped reading comprehension as well. I could give you a list of courses. I'm suggesting a wealth tax will help pay down our massive debt. Was that really difficult for you to figure out? Do you do better with illustrations?

Did you skip high school? You must have skipped economics as well. I wish you knew what the fuck you are bloviating about. You could tax the rich at 100% and it would change NOTHING. It would not fix our debt problems, it would not fix SS, it would not fund Government pensions and it would not reduce Washington's propensity to spend money, particularly from the Party of the Jackass.

We don't have a REVENUE problem dumbass; we have a SPENDING problem. It just grew by $3.5 trillion thanks to a Government demanded shut down of our economy based on hysterics over a data that has been inflated and wildly overestimated.
 
Don't be too hard on either of the TD twins. Both shit a little too close to the house, but Truth Detector is obviously the most afflicted.

That's amusing, you think you are smart? You do nothing but prove the exact opposite with every post. You're nothing but another uneducated, useless left wing hack snowflake.
 
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