We have never seen such a senior official say the President is unfit

[T. A. Gardner]

Do you really think that's not a problem with Trump?

It was with Obama. I think the problem is different with Trump. He is the overbearing, my ideas are great, I'm in charge here sort that has a plan and doesn't want to hear any criticism of it. Obama was the sort that had some great idea and thought that it, and he, were so smart, so brilliant, and that the idea was so incredibly fantastic that people would automatically be onboard with it. That always ended in disaster for him, even before he was President.

Obama thought he was anointed by god and the like and always surprised when no one believed it. Trump is just a bulldozer and when he doesn't get his way he pushes forward through the wreckage anyway.

A great example of this is Trump is building a border wall. You can hate him for it but he's building it nonetheless. Obama talked about the Green economy and went nowhere with it. He wanted gun control and nothing happened. He gave flowery speeches with great eloquence but nothing came out of them.

 

[Althea]

He spent $66 million of his own money on his campaign in 2016. Yes, that's not a huge amount for a billionaire, but it's not exactly chump change either.



When considering how much he's been investigated over the last few years yet still hasn't been charged with anything, that means 1 of 2 things:

1) The investigations were nothing burgers.

2) He's pretty good at avoiding charges.

Either way, he'll be fine if he wins or if he loses.

Right. But that goes away when he can't hide behind Bill Barr. Don't you understand?

Re. the $66 million. Those are his figures. He held every event at a trump property. He flew on his own jet. The money he spent, he gave to himself.

Even if he came up with all of it, and recouped none of it...he raised over $100 million for his inauguration party. The only profitable venture he's ever made.


Again...you aren't thinking past your talking points. trump is a very different target when he's no longer POTUS. That's why he needs to win.

But he won't.

 

[Saudade]

Right. But that goes away when he can't hide behind Bill Barr. Don't you understand?

Re. the $66 million. Those are his figures. He held every event at a trump property. He flew on his own jet. The money he spent, he gave to himself.

Even if he came up with all of it, and recouped none of it...he raised over $100 million for his inauguration party. The only profitable venture he's ever made.


Again...you aren't thinking past your talking points. trump is a very different target when he's no longer POTUS. That's why he needs to win.

But he won't.

This presents several questions, actually.

1) If Trump is so bad at business, why is he wealthy?
2) If this is really all about him maintaining the presidency to avoid charges, then what difference does it make if he wins or loses this next election? Presumably, he could still be charged after ending a second term. If it really is about him possibly going to jail after he exits office, then he's better off fleeing the country to one that doesn't extradite.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Agreed. This is why bailouts are always a bad idea.

Agreed, but they all do it. Trump has or plans to spend up to 5 trillion taxpayer dollars on top of the deficit he's already built. He nor any President can do it without the help of Congress so I blame all of them.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

It was with Obama. I think the problem is different with Trump. He is the overbearing, my ideas are great, I'm in charge here sort that has a plan and doesn't want to hear any criticism of it. Obama was the sort that had some great idea and thought that it, and he, were so smart, so brilliant, and that the idea was so incredibly fantastic that people would automatically be onboard with it. That always ended in disaster for him, even before he was President.

Obama thought he was anointed by god and the like and always surprised when no one believed it. Trump is just a bulldozer and when he doesn't get his way he pushes forward through the wreckage anyway.

A great example of this is Trump is building a border wall. You can hate him for it but he's building it nonetheless. Obama talked about the Green economy and went nowhere with it. He wanted gun control and nothing happened. He gave flowery speeches with great eloquence but nothing came out of them.

I think it's a problem with all those Washington pricks.

Ummm....how many additional miles of wall has he built for the 1900 mile border? Three.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-border-idUSKBN1YL2FB
Morgan said that 93 miles of wall had been built so far during the Trump administration. At least 90 miles of that replaced existing structures, according to CBP figures - although Morgan argued during the briefing that all barriers built under Trump should be considered “new.”

Personally, I think it's a waste of money. We could do better by passing laws such as making it a law that makes it illegal to harbor, entice or otherwise support illegals, to require all employers and renters to verify legal residency.

 

[Althea]

This presents several questions, actually.

1) If Trump is so bad at business, why is he wealthy?

He's not. Maybe he's rich. He's leveraged to the max.. There's only one way to find out. Of course, he's stealing millions every month, so there's that.

2) If this is really all about him maintaining the presidency to avoid charges, then what difference does it make if he wins or loses this next election? Presumably, he could still be charged after ending a second term. If it really is about him possibly going to jail after he exits office, then he's better off fleeing the country to one that doesn't extradite.

He can flee during the lame duck. He'll be near death in 4 1/2 years, so he'll never see jail. trump doesn't think past today's new cycle. He's not equipped to plot for another term. He just knows he has to win, and whatever comes next, comes next. He has lawyers (who he ignores) that get paid to worry about next year.

 

[Saudade]

He's not. Maybe he's rich. He's leveraged to the max.. There's only one way to find out. Of course, he's stealing millions every month, so there's that.

He can flee during the lame duck. He'll be near death in 4 1/2 years, so he'll never see jail. trump doesn't think past today's new cycle. He's not equipped to plot for another term. He just knows he has to win, and whatever comes next, comes next. He has lawyers (who he ignores) that get paid to worry about next year.

I see the same inconsistency by the left in evaluating Trump that they had with Bush. Bush was often treated like a moron while simultaneously assumed to be a mastermind of corruption. The same seems to be true with Trump.

Either he's a moron, or he's an evil mastermind. You have to pick one. Seeing as how he has avoided any serious trouble, the latter seems more likely.

Granted, the same has happened with the assessment of his COVID response. People say he isn't doing enough, and yet, they also said he was authoritarian just a few months before.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

A minority of voters forced the rest of us to have a president who thinks Finland is part of Russia, and does not know Britain is a nuclear power.

Nice work, deplorables.

A majority of states elected him because the alternative was worse. My advice is for the Democrats to run better candidates.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

I think it's a problem with all those Washington pricks.

Ummm....how many additional miles of wall has he built for the 1900 mile border? Three.

He's built a lot more than three. For example the Tohono O'tham tribe here in Southern AZ is all butt hurt that some "sacred site" is being disturbed by wall construction just West of the Organ Pipe National monument. There are miles of new wall in that area replacing what was called "Normandy" vehicle barriers.

This was what used to be there:

This is what Trump is putting in now.

Not being on either side of this in this discussion, what is happening is that the neysayers are being dishonest and claiming that Trump is just replacing existing border "wall." That is clearly not the case here, and isn't for hundreds of miles of border.

Trump is replacing vehicle barriers and other much less effective border barriers with an actual wall. That is factual, and the photos don't lie.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

He's built a lot more than three. For example the Tohono O'tham tribe here in Southern AZ is all butt hurt that some "sacred site" is being disturbed by wall construction just West of the Organ Pipe National monument. There are miles of new wall in that area replacing what was called "Normandy" vehicle barriers.

This was what used to be there:

http://davidelmore.com/djv/wp-content/gallery/de1702/DE17028987_pm-170211-border-fence-HDR.jpg

[img]https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/tucson.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/e/73/e732fa02-fd8d-5e79-9a45-1503a2a37af1/5d54aad505800.image.jpg

This is what Trump is putting in now.

[img]https://theintercept.imgix.net/wp-uploads/sites/1/2020/02/GettyImages-1197641621-border-wall-1581004238-e1581004337260.jpg]

Not being on either side of this in this discussion, what is happening is that the neysayers are being dishonest and claiming that Trump is just replacing existing border "wall." That is clearly not the case here, and isn't for hundreds of miles of border.

Trump is replacing vehicle barriers and other much less effective border barriers with an actual wall. That is factual, and the photos don't lie.[/QUOTE]

The cute pictures don't contradict the article. Do you have a link with numbers of mile, both new and reconstruction?

 

[T. A. Gardner]

The cute pictures don't contradict the article. Do you have a link with numbers of mile, both new and reconstruction?

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/border-wall-progress-whats-been-built-so-far

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...miles-border-16-miles-didnt-have-wall-before/

https://nypost.com/2019/08/28/video-shows-miles-of-newly-constructed-mexico-border-wall/

Depends on who you ask. Anywhere up to several hundred miles.

My guess overall is between 200 and 300 miles of new wall.

Here's some guy riding near Douglas AZ. Starts off going into Bisbee via the Mule Mountain tunnel past the now closed Lavender Pit open pit copper mine, and into Douglas where new wall is going up.

 

[Althea]

I see the same inconsistency by the left in evaluating Trump that they had with Bush. Bush was often treated like a moron while simultaneously assumed to be a mastermind of corruption. The same seems to be true with Trump.

Either he's a moron, or he's an evil mastermind. You have to pick one. Seeing as how he has avoided any serious trouble, the latter seems more likely.

Granted, the same has happened with the assessment of his COVID response. People say he isn't doing enough, and yet, they also said he was authoritarian just a few months before.

Were you an adult when Bush was POTUS? Because nobody assumed he was anything but a fool, and a puppet. Howdy Doody, to be exact. Cheney was the puppet master, and evil mastermind. Bush, like trump, was just a moron that managed to get himself selected by the SC.

I can keep repeating it, but you still won't understand. trump has avoided trouble because Barr believes a POTUS is above the law. That will change next year.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/border-wall-progress-whats-been-built-so-far

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...miles-border-16-miles-didnt-have-wall-before/

https://nypost.com/2019/08/28/video-shows-miles-of-newly-constructed-mexico-border-wall/

Depends on who you ask. Anywhere up to several hundred miles.

My guess overall is between 200 and 300 miles of new wall.

Here's some guy riding near Douglas AZ. Starts off going into Bisbee via the Mule Mountain tunnel past the now closed Lavender Pit open pit copper mine, and into Douglas where new wall is going up.

[video=youtube;Cus5FMRI8-E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cus5FMRI8-E

Thanks for the links. As noted by your links, most are replacement walls, not new walls over previously uncovered border. None of it was paid for by Mexico.

From the Fox link: As of the mid-April, 156 miles of new primary and secondary border wall have been built since January 2017.

Of that, 140 miles of new wall in place of what CBP calls dilapidated or outdated designs. Two miles have been built where no barriers previously existed. Meanwhile, 11 miles of a secondary system were constructed in place of old designs, and five miles where none previously existed.

The Washington Post link: The only problem is that the figure is a bit misleading. A report from Customs and Border Protection sent to reporters on Tuesday shows that 194 miles of wall have indeed been built — including primary walls and secondary walls that act as reinforcement systems. More to the point of Trump’s promise, only 16 miles of the 194 miles that have been constructed were built in places where fencing didn’t already exist. Of the 170 miles of primary wall that have been built, three miles are in places where no barrier existed before.

From the NY Post link: The post included the 55-second video, which shows a new, taller barrier that had replaced a 10-foot fence that asylum seekers and illegal immigrants were easily able to breach.

Crews in Arizona and New Mexico continued construction of taller border fencing funded through a national emergency declaration by President Trump.

In Arizona, crews were installing 30-foot steel fencing to replace older barriers next to a border crossing known as Lukeville Port of Entry.

The work on his hallmark campaign promise involves mostly replacement fencing along a 46-mile stretch of desert west of Santa Teresa, New Mexico, and on two miles of Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument in Arizona.

The video shows 15 miles of new wall.

 

[Cypress]

A majority of states elected him because the alternative was worse.

My advice is for the Democrats to run better candidates.

Hillary Clinton was the superior choice to Trump, and the American voters agreed

A majority of states has nothing to do with the constitution.

The constitution says nothing about a president needing to win a majority of states.

It is easily possible, and happens frequently, that a president wins both the electoral college and the popular vote while only carrying a minority of states.

 

[Concart]

He's built a lot more than three. For example the Tohono O'tham tribe here in Southern AZ is all butt hurt that some "sacred site" is being disturbed by wall construction just West of the Organ Pipe National monument. There are miles of new wall in that area replacing what was called "Normandy" vehicle barriers.

This was what used to be there:

This is what Trump is putting in now.

Not being on either side of this in this discussion, what is happening is that the neysayers are being dishonest and claiming that Trump is just replacing existing border "wall." That is clearly not the case here, and isn't for hundreds of miles of border.

Trump is replacing vehicle barriers and other much less effective border barriers with an actual wall. That is factual, and the photos don't lie.

ROTFLFMAO!!! How is it clear that it isn't happening here. Does Trumps new wall come pre-rusted? Man, that's dumb.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Hillary Clinton was the superior choice to Trump, and the American voters agreed

A majority of states has nothing to do with the constitution.

The constitution says nothing about a president needing to win a majority of states.

It is easily possible, and happens frequently, that a president wins both the electoral college and the popular vote while only carrying a minority of states.

In your opinion. I disagree. Trump is a complete douchebag, but Hillary was worse. I could hold my nose long enough to vote for either one but I'm glad Trump won. Let's hope the nation learns from this experience.

What part of the Election wasn't IAW the Constitution? What do you think Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution is about?

https://history.house.gov/Institution/Electoral-College/Electoral-College/

 

[Nordberg]

In your opinion. I disagree. Trump is a complete douchebag, but Hillary was worse. I could hold my nose long enough to vote for either one but I'm glad Trump won. Let's hope the nation learns from this experience.

What part of the Election wasn't IAW the Constitution? What do you think Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution is about?

https://history.house.gov/Institution/Electoral-College/Electoral-College/

Hillary was way, way above Trump. She had the right, the Repubs and Fox shred her for decades. They were successful in demonizing her. The chorus of lies about her was music to the right. She deserved much better.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Hillary was way, way above Trump. She had the right, the Repubs and Fox shred her for decades. They were successful in demonizing her. The chorus of lies about her was music to the right. She deserved much better.

She was, without a doubt, smarter and more experienced than Trump....not to mention saner. OTOH, she was also corrupt. She'd be playing the "pay-to-play" game since the 1990s. Remember her commodities trading scandal? https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/whitewater/stories/wwtr940527.htm

The Clintons are as crooked and nasty as a barrel of fish hooks with, again, Hillary being the smart one.

The main question comes down to this: Who would you rather have in office - a smart crook or a stupid one? We got the stupid one.

Obviously most people would want honest politicians in office, but that wasn't what the Democrats and Republicans were offering in 2016.

 

[Cypress]

In your opinion. I disagree. Trump is a complete douchebag, but Hillary was worse. I could hold my nose long enough to vote for either one but I'm glad Trump won. Let's hope the nation learns from this experience.

What part of the Election wasn't IAW the Constitution? What do you think Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution is about?

https://history.house.gov/Institution/Electoral-College/Electoral-College/

I understand you do not like Hillary Clinton

I believe Trump is the worst president of my lifetime, and it strains credulity to predict Ms. Clinton would have been even worse. To me at least

The notion that our constitution requires a presidential candidate to win a majority of states is found nowhere in the constitution. Jimmy Carter and JFK won both the popular vote and the EC, while only carrying a minority of states. Perfectly constitutional.

I have not done the math, but I believe it is mathematically possible to win the popular vote and the EC while only carrying less than 15 states

So really, it has never been about what the majority of states want.

The entire historical trajectory of our nation for three centuries has been to expand the franchise, build democratic institutions, and make government more representative of the popular will.

The archaic EC will eventually go the way of the dodo bird, and I suspect it will happen shortly after a future election where the GOP wins the popular vote while losing the EC

 

[Nordberg]

She was, without a doubt, smarter and more experienced than Trump....not to mention saner. OTOH, she was also corrupt. She'd be playing the "pay-to-play" game since the 1990s. Remember her commodities trading scandal? https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/whitewater/stories/wwtr940527.htm

The Clintons are as crooked and nasty as a barrel of fish hooks with, again, Hillary being the smart one.

The main question comes down to this: Who would you rather have in office - a smart crook or a stupid one? We got the stupid one.

Obviously most people would want honest politicians in office, but that wasn't what the Democrats and Republicans were offering in 2016.

Back up the corruption charges. They are fake news. She was investigated by Repubs for decades. The fact that they found no corruption makes her the most vetted and honest person In politics. If they found anything at all, they would have prosecuted her. The reds do not play nice.
How would Trump do in such investigations?