When Will We Recover From The Civil War? Now Is The Time.

PoliTalker said:
Hello Dutch Uncle,

How can we ignore the lessons of the Civil War when we have not learned them yet? Forcing symbols of hatred into the face of the oppressed is not learning any lessons.
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All of you won't learn, much less remember, those lessons by erasing the past from the public mind.

Symbols are funny and people misuse them all the time. Are these symbols good or bad? If I wore them on my t-shirt at a rally would Antifa beat the shit out of me? Remember when a couple of idiots beat up a Sikh man after 9/11? That's what you are advocating.

buddhist-swastika.jpg
 
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Hello Phantasmal,

Phantasmal said:
Lee replied, as documented by New York Times:
I think it wiser, moreover, not to keep open the sores of war but to follow the examples of those nations who endeavored to obliterate the marks of civil strife, to commit to oblivion the feelings engendered.​
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Freaking awesome. How prophetic.

That's like Lee saying: "Don't put up a bunch of statues of me."
 
Hello Dutch Uncle,

Dutch Uncle said:
Who is "we"? Obviously they need to take more college-level history and global politics classes.
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The we is America.

And yes, education needs to be vastly improved to teach the lessons which are obviously not being properly taught by glorifying the traitors.
 
Hello Dutch Uncle,

Dutch Uncle said:
All of you won't learn, much less remember, those lessons by erasing the past from the public mind.

Symbols are funny and people misuse them all the time. Are these symbols good or bad? If I wore them on my t-shirt at a rally would Antifa beat the shit out of me? Remember when a couple of idiots beat up a Sikh man after 9/11? That's what you are advocating.

buddhist-swastika.jpg
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Must be some errant logic there. I do not advocate for anybody to 'get beat up.' And to that end I would not advise flaunting trigger symbols in the face of anyone who might be looking for trouble, no matter what the history of those symbols may be. Yes, symbols are funny and much of that is context.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Dutch Uncle,



The we is America.

And yes, education needs to be vastly improved to teach the lessons which are obviously not being properly taught by glorifying the traitors.
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I've never met the Spokesperson for America. How do you do?

Agreed on better education...which, oddly enough, would teach you they weren't traitors....at least no more traitors than Washington, Jefferson and Franklin.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Dutch Uncle,



Must be some errant logic there. I do not advocate for anybody to 'get beat up.' And to that end I would not advise flaunting trigger symbols in the face of anyone who might be looking for trouble, no matter what the history of those symbols may be. Yes, symbols are funny and much of that is context.
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Yes, you are. You are labeling people racists and traitors. You're using hateful rhetoric to spin people up. Some of those people are violent and will use your same rhetoric to commit violence. You know, just like Trump does. ;)
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Dutch Uncle,

How do you propose to end the Civil War while keeping the symbols of hatred and false superiority?
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First, but not labeling people traitors and historic statues as "symbols of hatred and false superiority". Teach people context and historical rights and wrongs. Were the Founders right to become traitors and betray their king? To steal the King's property?
 
Dutch Uncle said:
First, but not labeling people traitors and historic statues as "symbols of hatred and false superiority". Teach people context and historical rights and wrongs. Were the Founders right to become traitors and betray their king? To steal the King's property?
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They would have been hung as traitors if they had lost. Good thing they didn’t lose.
 
I do not get why the false idea of 'preserving history' is more important than letting blacks know the freedom that whites do.

The freedom to feel equal.

The freedom to believe in a fair shot at the American Dream.

Is it so important to keep those statues up, knowing the hurt and pain they cause?

How would you like to have it rubbed in your face every day that people hate you because of the color of your skin?

Those statues are tearing our society apart.

There can be no end to the Civil War as long as they stand.
 
Hello Dutch Uncle,

Dutch Uncle said:
I've never met the Spokesperson for America. How do you do?

Agreed on better education...which, oddly enough, would teach you they weren't traitors....at least no more traitors than Washington, Jefferson and Franklin.
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They ended their loyalty to the USA and began fighting against the United States. They failed to uphold and protect the Constitution.
 
Hello Dutch Uncle,

Dutch Uncle said:
Yes, you are. You are labeling people racists and traitors. You're using hateful rhetoric to spin people up. Some of those people are violent and will use your same rhetoric to commit violence. You know, just like Trump does. ;)
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I do not advocate for violence. Violence is wrong. Violence should be avoided if at all possible. I advocate for peace and civil discourse. The problem with violence is that it takes two in agreement to avoid violence, but it only takes one to perpetrate it.

If everyone were to agree not to instigate violence, a very logical agreement for a peaceful society, there would never be any violence.
 
Hello Dutch Uncle,

Dutch Uncle said:
First, but not labeling people traitors and historic statues as "symbols of hatred and false superiority". Teach people context and historical rights and wrongs. Were the Founders right to become traitors and betray their king? To steal the King's property?
Click to expand...

That does not sound like a solution to end the Civil War. It's merely what you wanted, to keep the statues up.

You think the answer is that everyone should agree they are not hateful?

How can that be when they are reminders of atrocities committed against slaves, and fighting to keep that wrongful power?

You can't tell somebody who is hurt by a reminder of oppression not to be hurt by that.

I like the idea of putting all the statues in a statue museum. Wanna preserve history? There you go. Put it in it's place. Get it out of our face.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
All of you won't learn, much less remember, those lessons by erasing the past from the public mind.

Symbols are funny and people misuse them all the time. Are these symbols good or bad? If I wore them on my t-shirt at a rally would Antifa beat the shit out of me? Remember when a couple of idiots beat up a Sikh man after 9/11? That's what you are advocating.

buddhist-swastika.jpg
Click to expand...

Who has Antifa beaten? The police say of all the people they arrested, and that was thousands, they found zero Antifa members. They did find some Whitesupremacists though.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
All of you won't learn, much less remember, those lessons by erasing the past from the public mind.

Symbols are funny and people misuse them all the time. Are these symbols good or bad? If I wore them on my t-shirt at a rally would Antifa beat the shit out of me? Remember when a couple of idiots beat up a Sikh man after 9/11? That's what you are advocating.

buddhist-swastika.jpg
Click to expand...

The ancient use of swastikas proves nothing. The Nazis made it their own. We know what it is about. Who on the streets is carrying a swastika due to ancient Buddhist statues?
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Dutch Uncle,



That does not sound like a solution to end the Civil War. It's merely what you wanted, to keep the statues up.

You think the answer is that everyone should agree they are not hateful?

How can that be when they are reminders of atrocities committed against slaves, and fighting to keep that wrongful power?

You can't tell somebody who is hurt by a reminder of oppression not to be hurt by that.

I like the idea of putting all the statues in a statue museum. Wanna preserve history? There you go. Put it in it's place. Get it out of our face.
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it's a reminder of man's inhumanity to man. elites want to obscure this past so they can keep being horrible.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Dutch Uncle,

They ended their loyalty to the USA and began fighting against the United States. They failed to uphold and protect the Constitution.
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True about ending loyalty, but initially it was defending against the attacking United States, meaning the remaining states in the Union. Interesting point about oaths of office in the military which points out a grammatical clue to the ideas these men had about their State and the Union (Federal government):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Uniformed_Services_Oath_of_Office#History
It was first updated in September 1776, after the Declaration of Independence, to swear to be “true to the United States of America, and to serve them honestly and faithfully against all their enemies opposers whatsoever; and to observe and obey the orders of the Continental Congress and the orders of the Generals and officers set over me by them".

This was changed in 1789 to place allegiance to the Constitution of the United States at the beginning of the oath. It remained relatively unchanged until the 1860s. At this point, the reference to "them" was replaced with "it" to reflect the realities of the divided nation during the American Civil War, as well as the shifting attitude of viewing the United States as one entity rather than a collection of smaller ones.
 
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