When Will We Recover From The Civil War? Now Is The Time.

[Dutch Uncle]

The ancient use of swastikas proves nothing. The Nazis made it their own. We know what it is about. Who on the streets is carrying a swastika due to ancient Buddhist statues?

Buddhists. So would Antifa or some far Lefty beat them up or not if there was a "Unite the Right" rally in town?

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Hello Dutch Uncle,

I do not advocate for violence. Violence is wrong. Violence should be avoided if at all possible. I advocate for peace and civil discourse. The problem with violence is that it takes two in agreement to avoid violence, but it only takes one to perpetrate it.

If everyone were to agree not to instigate violence, a very logical agreement for a peaceful society, there would never be any violence.

Trump says he doesn't advocate violence either.

Agreed, speak a lot of rhetoric and it only takes one nutjob to put it in the news. It's not human nature for everyone to abide by an agreement to avoid violence. Human history is primarily written in blood.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Hello Dutch Uncle,

That does not sound like a solution to end the Civil War. It's merely what you wanted, to keep the statues up.

You think the answer is that everyone should agree they are not hateful?

How can that be when they are reminders of atrocities committed against slaves, and fighting to keep that wrongful power?

You can't tell somebody who is hurt by a reminder of oppression not to be hurt by that.

I like the idea of putting all the statues in a statue museum. Wanna preserve history? There you go. Put it in it's place. Get it out of our face.

How can there be peace if one or the other is still warring with the other? If one is calling the other nasty names like "traitor", "racist" or "stupid" when there's no merit in the accusation?

It's impossible to get everyone to agree. At best, a sustainable majority will agree.

Back on symbols again. Asked and answered.

Coddling isn't the best way to raise adults....neither is treating them like they are sub-standard idiots who can't understand history and the difference between two extreme points of view.

You can't please everyone and it's bordering on insane to even try.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Who has Antifa beaten? The police say of all the people they arrested, and that was thousands, they found zero Antifa members. They did find some Whitesupremacists though.

Are you saying Antifa is non-violent? You might want to consult with the SPLC because even they admit Antifa members have committed violence. Yes, no doubt the White Supremacists are Supreme Assholes who need to get a fucking grip on life.

 

[Minister of Truth]

Disagreed and it makes me doubt your education and knowledge of history.

The CSA split from the US and was willing to go it alone. It was the US that attacked and sought to destroy the CSA by forcibly dragging them back into the Union.

That said, while I think Lincoln exceeded his Constitutional authority, I'm glad the US remained a united nation due to global events in the 20th century. Hindsight is 20/20.

Can you defend Nazi Germany, even from a non-21st Century perspective?

Also, please don't lie. America did not fire upon itself at Fort Sumter.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Can you defend Nazi Germany, even from a non-21st Century perspective?

Also, please don't lie. America did not fire upon itself at Fort Sumter.

No, why would I? Are you seriously trying to compare the South of 1862 to the Nazi regime? Are you really a Tech Sergeant or do you just play one on the Internet?

Thanks for admitting that South Carolina was a different country when it fired on Fort Sumter.

 

[Minister of Truth]

No, why would I? Are you seriously trying to compare the South of 1862 to the Nazi regime? Are you really a Tech Sergeant or do you just play one on the Internet?

Thanks for admitting that South Carolina was a different country when it fired on Fort Sumter.

Yes, I disagree with the Unionist argument that the CSA was not a separate country. It attacked America, and we subsequently defeated it and conquered its states.

As for the character of the CSA. America has fought the likes of Britain, Mexico, Spain, and Imperial Germany, which were not evil, but merely adversarial. We have also fought true embodiments of evil, like Jacobin France, the CSA, Nazi Germany, and the USSR (international socialism, generally). What is really so much more evil and degenerate about the Nazis than the Confederates?

 

[RB 60]

Yes, I disagree with the Unionist argument that the CSA was not a separate country. It attacked America, and we subsequently defeated it and conquered its states.

As for the character of the CSA. America has fought the likes of Britain, Mexico, Spain, and Imperial Germany, which were not evil, but merely adversarial. We have also fought true embodiments of evil, like Jacobin France, the CSA, Nazi Germany, and the USSR (international socialism, generally). What is really so much more evil and degenerate about the Nazis than the Confederates?

Stupid question. Next?

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Yes, I disagree with the Unionist argument that the CSA was not a separate country. It attacked America, and we subsequently defeated it and conquered its states.

As for the character of the CSA. America has fought the likes of Britain, Mexico, Spain, and Imperial Germany, which were not evil, but merely adversarial. We have also fought true embodiments of evil, like Jacobin France, the CSA, Nazi Germany, and the USSR (international socialism, generally). What is really so much more evil and degenerate about the Nazis than the Confederates?

How can a country attack itself "tech sergeant" much less conquer itself?

Good luck, boot. You're going to need it with your very narrow view of history.

 

[Minister of Truth]

Stupid question. Next?

Still not seeing the difference.

 

[Minister of Truth]

How can a country attack itself "tech sergeant" much less conquer itself?

Good luck, boot. You're going to need it with your very narrow view of history.

Pretty sure the CSA didn't attack itself. Unless you mean that by starting a war with America, the Confederates figuratively attacked their own chances of national survival.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Pretty sure the CSA didn't attack itself. Unless you mean that by starting a war with America, the Confederates figuratively attacked their own chances of national survival.

It didn't, but I can see you are far more interested in silly word games than in acknowledging that either POTUS ordered the Union army to attack the US or he ordered it to attack a foreign country, the CSA. You can't have it both ways no matter how many times you change your username.

 

[Minister of Truth]

It didn't, but I can see you are far more interested in silly word games than in acknowledging that either POTUS ordered the Union army to attack the US or he ordered it to attack a foreign country, the CSA. You can't have it both ways no matter how many times you change your username.

POTUS ordered the US Army to attack the CSA at US Fort Sumter?

 

[Triplelefthook]

I do not get why the false idea of 'preserving history' is more important than letting blacks know the freedom that whites do.

The freedom to feel equal.

The freedom to believe in a fair shot at the American Dream.

Is it so important to keep those statues up, knowing the hurt and pain they cause?

How would you like to have it rubbed in your face every day that people hate you because of the color of your skin?

Those statues are tearing our society apart.

There can be no end to the Civil War as long as they stand.

PoliTalker,

You are stating that the failed economic model of slavery in the South, and their resentment over the mistake they made in wedding themselves to that model, is responsible for the racism that exists in the country today?

How do Black Americans not have a fair shot at the American Dream? What exactly is the racism and policy that has kept them down since the equal rights act?

I just never see it. I see a lot of rhetoric, a lot of coverage when a Black man is killed by police, no similar coverage when a white man is killed under similar circumstances.

I see poor (some black some not) neighborhoods being policed more heavily because they perpetuate more crime. But I also see this current President improving conditions for Black Americans across the board (until the Covid crisis).

What exactly is the racism and anti-Black policy you speak of that is keeping Black Americans from realizing the American Dream?

Triple

 

[NiftyNiblick]

We never recovered from the Civil War.

The official war ended, and then immediately the fight went into a social struggle to repress blacks and glorify the Confederacy. That has never ended, and even though the people who began this struggle are all dead, we are still stuck with the hatred which was hatched then in an effort to justify southern slavery and the decision to launch into a totally needless, hurtful, and deadly war over nothing but stupid hatred. Racism is a stain that has marred the American cause of freedom and human rights.

Now we have our opportunity to forward our complete recovery from the Civil War.

And it came in the strangest way.

An oppressive hateful president, an insensitive cop, a black victim of police brutality.

This has become a moment.

It has become a movement. This movement has spread far beyond the American borders. There are Floyd protests all over the WORLD!

It is a chance to heal.

You're again being a Pollyanna, PoliTalker.

Passion doesn't bring reform.
Passion rises and diminishes.
White liberals want reform, but after a lot of commotion, things die down and it's still somebody else's problem to us in the end.

Reform must come dispassionately because good people know it's the right thing to do.
The United States, especially the Red ones, but really all of them, are not the first place to look for good people.
We're diseased with socially regressive Neanderthals of multiple ethnicities.

The problem with the civil war was that Reconstruction was truncated and thus never really happened.
Abolishing slavery was absolutely necessary, but was preserving the Union?

We have a nation of people who are quite sincere with their totally incompatible ideologies.
They will never allow peace to exist trying to live under the same government.
Partition might turn out to be the answer after all.

 

[Nordberg]

you're ascribing absolute power to nazis in your ridiculous mind.

I cannot believe the crazy shit you type.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

 

[Dutch Uncle]

You're again being a Pollyanna, PoliTalker.

Passion doesn't bring reform.
Passion rises and diminishes.
White liberals want reform, but after a lot of commotion, things die down and it's still somebody else's problem to us in the end.

Reform must come dispassionately because good people know it's the right thing to do.
The United States, especially the Red ones, but really all of them, are not the first place to look for good people.
We're diseased with socially regressive Neanderthals of multiple ethnicities.

The problem with the civil war was that Reconstruction was truncated and thus never really happened.
Abolishing slavery was absolutely necessary, but was preserving the Union?

We have a nation of people who are quite sincere with their totally incompatible ideologies.
They will never allow peace to exist trying to live under the same government.
Partition might turn out to be the answer after all.

Agreed with much except for your conclusion. We're living in a time when both parties have moved to extremes. We're living in a time where Alvin Toffler's book "Future Shock" has largely come true; we're experiencing "information overload" between the technological advances of cable television and the Internet.

What you are overlooking is that it's okay to disagree. Not everyone has to think and live the same way. All we have to do is tolerate differences within a specific spectrum such as no murder, no rape, etc. Segregation is not the answer; it's a recipe for eventual war.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello and welcome Triplelefthook,

Thanks for the polite reply. I am glad you found the forum. I like to acquaint all newcomers to my own rules, which are more strict than the site rules, created to ensure a polite posting experience, which I hope are no problem at all:

"Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well."

If that is agreeable then I am happy to welcome you to JPP. If not, then we won't be talking long.

PoliTalker,

You are stating that the failed economic model of slavery in the South, and their resentment over the mistake they made in wedding themselves to that model, is responsible for the racism that exists in the country today?

How do Black Americans not have a fair shot at the American Dream? What exactly is the racism and policy that has kept them down since the equal rights act?

I just never see it. I see a lot of rhetoric, a lot of coverage when a Black man is killed by police, no similar coverage when a white man is killed under similar circumstances.

I see poor (some black some not) neighborhoods being policed more heavily because they perpetuate more crime. But I also see this current President improving conditions for Black Americans across the board (until the Covid crisis).

What exactly is the racism and anti-Black policy you speak of that is keeping Black Americans from realizing the American Dream?

Triple

Discrimination, redlining, Jim Crow laws are some of the major ways that racism has made less opportunity for realization of the American dream available to blacks. Many other more subtle cultural effects are also at work. The fact that some blacks surpass all the odds and do well only serves to show that they have just as much potential as whites. It shows that the racism present since the Civil War is still with us.

Black parents are familiar with 'the talk.' They have to tell their black children upon coming of age that the world is stacked against them and they need to live to a higher standard if they want to avoid problems including possible wrongful death. Keep your hands out of your pockets. Don't wear a hoodie. Don't talk back to a policeman. Make sure all your tail lights work. Keep your hands up on the top of the wheel and in plain view. Ask permission to reach into your pocket for an ID. And on and on like that.

White parents do not have to have 'the talk' with their children.

 

[Truck Fump / h1b]

I cannot believe the crazy shit you type.

you're the one attributing nazis the god like power to change symbols for all time.