Which is it?

[Dutch Uncle]

So you think that salvation is the same for Muslims as Christians? Do you think the Jews believe Jesus was of one essence with God? How about those "folk religions"...

No. I think religions are akin to several people sitting around a table looking that the same large diamond (the true nature of God) but only seeing one facet, not the whole diamond.

IMO, mere human beings are far too limited to see embrace the true nature of God, so they only focus on the facet they can comprehend.

Human beings can barely comprehend their own nation much less the entire Universe...and God is greater an all the Universes, right?

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Jesus, man! Just look it up!

I think that should be "Jesus, woman! Just look it up!"

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Nope. It is three distinct people. Your notion is one that was abandoned long ago.

Neither God nor the "Holy Ghost" are "people". Only Jesus was human.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

it would be great if you had something other than unwarranted condescension and stupidity.

Pot meet Kettle.

 

[Litmus]

Pot meet Kettle.

this isn't beauty and the beast.

 

[Cypress]

This graph helps me understand in part why I am now an atheist. Just look at all those different (often mutually exclusive) religions. Every single one of which knows the ONLY perfected truth.

I don't think Buddhism, Judaism, Taoism, Hinduism, Jainism, Sikhism proclaim an exclusive truth which preclude other beliefs and confer on them damnation

 

[Cypress]

You complain a lot about Christians, but I'm curious: Why do you think so many people believe in religion or a spiritual nature as opposed to your staunch atheism?

Part of it is the human desire to belong to community, but you don't neccessarily need religion for that.

Humans desire purpose and meaning, I think that drives a lot of it.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Part of it is the human desire to belong to community, but you don't neccessarily need religion for that.

Humans desire purpose and meaning, I think that drives a lot of it.

True, that's part of our nature. However, there's a spiritual side to the Human mental and physical natures....and you and I are agreed that our spirituality doesn't need a religion to sustain it.

I see religion like a martial art; there are several kinds and all simply teach the art of self-defense along with the self-discipline necessary to succeed in it. Religion is a path to maximizing our spiritual natures. Like any learning, there are those who never rise above the rote level and there are those who keep rising to being able to think critically. They go on to learn for fun, to satisfy their curiosity or as a goal to towards a profession. The joy of learning becomes their oyster.

In religion, there are those, as seen daily on JPP, who only know the rote. They cherry-pick the Bible to push their hatred of others or a political viewpoint. There are others who strive to see the wisdom of the Bible and rise above it to the point of learning about other religions and the wisdom contained therein. You are one of those latter people, Cypress. JPP is full of people who are not.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

this isn't beauty and the beast.

QED on someone stuck in their own hate and who uses religion to push that hatred.

 

[Litmus]

QED

whatever you say, captain fuckstain.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

whatever you say, captain fuckstain.

I doubt you are able to understand anything I write, Fredo. It's not in your nature.

 

[Cypress]

True, that's part of our nature. However, there's a spiritual side to the Human mental and physical natures....and you and I are agreed that our spirituality doesn't need a religion to sustain it.

I see religion like a martial art; there are several kinds and all simply teach the art of self-defense along with the self-discipline necessary to succeed in it. Religion is a path to maximizing our spiritual natures. Like any learning, there are those who never rise above the rote level and there are those who keep rising to being able to think critically. They go on to learn for fun, to satisfy their curiosity or as a goal to towards a profession. The joy of learning becomes their oyster.

In religion, there are those, as seen daily on JPP, who only know the rote. They cherry-pick the Bible to push their hatred of others or a political viewpoint. There are others who strive to see the wisdom of the Bible and rise above it to the point of learning about other religions and the wisdom contained therein. You are one of those latter people, Cypress. JPP is full of people who are not.

Thanks for generally always providing a sincere and relatively impartial perspective on discussions concerning religion, science, history.

It takes self-discipline to consistently refrain from trolling and pushing ulterior agendas.

Knowlege, understanding, and insight tends to be constrained by a strictly materialistic and reductionist view on physical reality and human experience, in my opinion. I never found that physics, chemistry, or the German philosophy professors had all the answers -- or even had all the right questions. An integrated and wide-ranging exploration and search for the right questions probably needs to be a lot more existentialist and open ended.

 

[domer76]

It seems to come down to a matter of language and perception.

Hinduism has a pantheon of dieties. But all of them are just manifestations and representations of the one universal spirit, Brahman.

So Hinduism is conventionally polytheistic, but in another very real sense it is monotheistic.

I just don't think the English language has the words to clearly penetrate these distinctions and juxtapositions

I’m not familiar enough with, nor experienced first hand, the manifestations of Hinduism to know. Unlike Christianity, its theology has had minimal impact on the history and politics of this country. And, unlike Christianity, we certainly don’t see Hindus on this forum, or even in public discourse, thumping their collective chests about their only true god.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I’m not familiar enough with, nor experienced first hand, the manifestations of Hinduism to know. Unlike Christianity, its theology has had minimal impact on the history and politics of this country. And, unlike Christianity, we certainly don’t see Hindus on this forum, or even in public discourse, thumping their collective chests about their only true god.

Duh. Would you prefer Islam? Hinduism? This forum has many people thumping their chests about their one true god, the Orange Jesus. Why do you prefer attacking Christianity just because few people, mostly Trumpers, are idiots?

Did you have a bad experience in your youth being forced to wear a coat and tie than sitting for a few hours in a pew and Sunday school? Did your parents threaten to cut off your allowance if you didn't go to church in your teens?

 

[domer76]

You complain a lot about Christians, but I'm curious: Why do you think so many people believe in religion or a spiritual nature as opposed to your staunch atheism?

All religions that believe in some personal god that interacts with human beings, answers prayers, is all powerful and omnibenevolent are full of shit. Those gods are nothing more than myths. Inventions by man, in man’s own image. Christianity, solely, is the one that has has a stranglehold on this country since its inception. And before.

There may well be a god of the universe. But it sure as shit isn’t the Christian god. That god is AWOL. When any true Christian, if there is any, can explain the problem of the unnecessary suffering of innocent man and animal, perhaps I’ll be convinced. I’ve seen the best of apologetics try and fail miserably.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

As I continue my readings, I came across a word I was not familiar with. Henotheism. Many gods, but recognize a top god to worship.

That’s Christianity. Or it could even be considered polytheistic.

It certainly is a far cry from monotheistic.

I always thought that the Trinity made it polytheistic, but telling your pastor that is unwise. lol

 

[domer76]

Neither God nor the "Holy Ghost" are "people". Only Jesus was human.

Sorry. The Trinity is described as three separate beings. Call them what you want, but it’s nothing more than theological gymnastics to try to get Jesus into a godhead role.

 

[Cypress]

I’m not familiar enough with, nor experienced first hand, the manifestations of Hinduism to know. Unlike Christianity, its theology has had minimal impact on the history and politics of this country. And, unlike Christianity, we certainly don’t see Hindus on this forum, or even in public discourse, thumping their collective chests about their only true god.

So the goal of the thread was just to piss off christians?

Since the concept of polytheism versus monotheism was the subject of the original post, I think it's worth understanding what those words actually mean in the world religions context. Hinduism, Chinese folk religions, animimist traditions could conventionally be considered polytheistic. But as I pointed out with Hinduism, even the concept of polytheism is fraught with vagueness, at least with the words we are provided with in English.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

All religions that believe in some personal god that interacts with human beings, answers prayers, is all powerful and omnibenevolent are full of shit. Those gods are nothing more than myths. Inventions by man, in man’s own image. Christianity, solely, is the one that has has a stranglehold on this country since its inception. And before.

There may well be a god of the universe. But it sure as shit isn’t the Christian god. That god is AWOL. When any true Christian, if there is any, can explain the problem of the unnecessary suffering of innocent man and animal, perhaps I’ll be convinced. I’ve seen the best of apologetics try and fail miserably.

Prove it and I'll believe you. Otherwise, I'm ambivalent. Que sera, sera. C'est la vie. I don't care. The only time I go to church is for weddings and funerals. While I believe in an all-powerful force behind the Universe, I strongly doubt it grants wishes of bicycles for those who pray hard enough. I lean toward a "Watchmaker God", one who created the Universe like a watchmaker makes a watch, winds it up and lets it run out without further interference. What others believe is on them. While I've had everything from Hari Krishnas to Mormons to Scientologists try to convince me otherwise, I've always found a simple "No thanks" to be sufficient. YMMV

Your hatred of Christians piques my interest since studying haters is a hobby of mine. This is why I'm interested in your background on the subject. Nothing doxxable, just your feelings and some non-identifiable history.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Sorry. The Trinity is described as three separate beings. Call them what you want, but it’s nothing more than theological gymnastics to try to get Jesus into a godhead role.

I did. You seem to believe only you have the one true answer.

What makes you any different than a pencil-necked Bible Thumper?