Which is it?

domer76 said:
Well, let’s see. Unlike a Bible thumper, I’m actually willing to do a little homework on the subject. Now, when any Bible thumper can actually provide any credible evidence of a heaven and hell, of life after death, of virgin births or of a benevolent god watching over his creation, I’ll listen.

So far, NADA.
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A little. Then you devolve into hateful, biased rants about them. Again, I see little daylight between you two.

It's a matter of faith. It's also a matter of curiosity since, according to science, there was once nothing and then there was the Big Bang creating Space/Time. What made the difference?
 
Doc Dutch said:
Soooo.....60 years later you're still pissed about it? WTF? I spent a lot of time in DOD schools; desegregated and dereligioned. <---if that's a word.
Upon return from a 3 year life in Germany, I was enrolled with my cousin in a small public school for the last 6 weeks of the First Grade. The school was so small that the classrooms formed a border around a small gym on three sides and had a stage on the fourth side. After morning assembly in the classroom we all gathered in the gym to recite the Pledge of Allegiance...which I knew. Then they recited the Lord's Prayer which I didn't. I faked moving my lips and, in adult terms, was wondering what the fuck? FWIW, I only partially learned the Lord's Prayer just to get by.

Again, your anger. Again, I'm ambivalent. It was after all, 60 fucking years ago. Get a grip, Domer. Lots of shit has changed since those days. I was more concerned about getting nuked.

Again, you act like this is a Catholic country with a national religion instead of seeing things clearly for what they are. Yes, there are people as you describe, but as proved since Trump' SCOTUS ended Roe V. Wade, most American disagree with both the anti-abortion Alt-Righties and your view of America. FWIW, the difference between you and them is narrowing since both of you seek to impose your beliefs upon others.
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and you're for mandatory vax.
 
Doc Dutch said:
Why would I be for mandatory vax? Even the military backed away from that one. Who required mandatory vax, Fredo? I understand if you want to run from the question as you so often do when the going gets rough.
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you tell us why.

are you saying nobody required it?

back to gaslighting eh?
 
Blackwater Lunchbreak said:
but of course none of that was actually about religion. it was about competing power centers.


you people are dumb as fuk.
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It does not logically follow that the pursuit of power necessarily precludes the alarm at losing souls to Satan.

Every legitimate historian I have heard says there was a legitimate concern during the Wars of Religion that millions of immortal souls were in peril if they chose the wrong belief.
 
Cypress said:
It does not logically follow that the pursuit of power necessarily precludes the alarm at losing souls to Satan.

Every legitimate historian I have heard says there was a legitimate concern during the Wars of Religion that millions of immortal souls were in peril if they chose the wrong belief.
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no it doesn't.

but that's not what I said or implied.

you like all the stupid historians eh?

that sounds right.
 
Cypress said:
Its remarkable.

From the 21st century perspective, the 30 years war was fought over seemingly minor differences over the sacraments and the nature of salvation.

But, from the 17th century perspective, they truly thought that the fate of the immortal souls of Europeans were at stake.
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Perspective is important. Some people believe in magic, fortune telling and magical creatures. I believe in the laws of the Universe. Two different perspectives, but only one has evidence behind it proving it to be correct.
 
Cypress said:
It does not logically follow that the pursuit of power necessarily precludes the alarm at losing souls to Satan.

Every legitimate historian I have heard says there was a legitimate concern during the Wars of Religion that millions of immortal souls were in peril if they chose the wrong belief.
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Faux Christians intentionally blind themselves to the truth....that or their mental state precludes them from seeing beyond their own noses. Sad.
 
Cypress said:
Muslims tend to say Christianity is polytheistic. Which is a valid point

It's just a word, I don't know why it really matters that much. Muslims can call it polytheism, and Christians can call it monotheism. I am not invested either way
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To me it only matters when a religion claims to be the OneTruePath(tm) and then uses their self-description of monotheism (the one true god) as superior to pan- to polytheism (many true gods). Really, who knows the fuck how many gods there are, or if there are any gods?
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
To me it only matters when a religion claims to be the OneTruePath(tm) and then uses their self-description of monotheism (the one true god) as superior to pan- to polytheism (many true gods). Really, who knows the fuck how many gods there are, or if there are any gods?
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I think the Christian nationalists and fundamentalists are a problem.

But I think most people have a live and let live attitude. There are a lot of Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists in California and they tend to get along fairly well and live without conflict. Maybe I am sheltered, lol. I never saw an argument or fight break out in the lunch room or at school even though I was around with people of different faith traditions. It was usually the crazy guy on the street corner I remember screaming at people to accept jesus or face the consequences LOL :)
 
Doc Dutch said:
No. I think religions are akin to several people sitting around a table looking that the same large diamond (the true nature of God) but only seeing one facet, not the whole diamond.

IMO, mere human beings are far too limited to see embrace the true nature of God, so they only focus on the facet they can comprehend.

Human beings can barely comprehend their own nation much less the entire Universe...and God is greater an all the Universes, right? :)
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OH, don't get me wrong. I fully understand WHY different religions get made up. I'm just commenting on the fact that it is logically impossible for two mutually exclusive things to actually be UNIVERSAL TRUTHS.

Religions, in case you didn't realize it, usually think of themselves as having "TRUTH". (I'll grant the various Easter Religions are different in that but I suspect even THEY assume they know TRUTH).

Two mutually exclusive versions of the truth cannot both be true.

I wasn't talking about "societies" or "social norms". I'm talking about theology.
 
Cypress said:
I think the Christian nationalists and fundamentalists are a problem.

But I think most people have a live and let live attitude. There are a lot of Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists in California and they tend to get along fairly well and live without conflict. Maybe I am sheltered, lol. I never saw an argument or fight break out in the lunch room or at school even though I was around with people of different faith traditions. It was usually the crazy guy on the street corner I remember screaming at people to accept jesus or face the consequences LOL :)
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The problem happens when religion and politics mix. It only produces a toxic, freedom-reducing, poison that kills democracy.
 
Obtenebrator said:
OH, don't get me wrong. I fully understand WHY different religions get made up. I'm just commenting on the fact that it is logically impossible for two mutually exclusive things to actually be UNIVERSAL TRUTHS.

Religions, in case you didn't realize it, usually think of themselves as having "TRUTH". (I'll grant the various Easter Religions are different in that but I suspect even THEY assume they know TRUTH).

Two mutually exclusive versions of the truth cannot both be true.

I wasn't talking about "societies" or "social norms". I'm talking about theology.
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No religion has a monopoly on "Universal Truths". Where major religions are similar is where they are closer to human universal truths. Things like "don't kill each other", "don't steal from each other", stuff like that.
 
Commander Dutch said:
Perspective is important. Some people believe in magic, fortune telling and magical creatures. I believe in the laws of the Universe. Two different perspectives, but only one has evidence behind it proving it to be correct.
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We don't know where the physical laws and mathmatical organization of the universe come from, or why they are so precisely balanced to allow for atomic matter and complex chemistry to exist. So while I certainly believe there is a mathmatical scaffolding to the universe, I don't know why that is.

I think empirical evidence is important, but I don't think all knowledge comes empirically.
 
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