Worst argument for religion that I've read, ever.

PostmodernProphet said:
post #82


John 3
18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
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Once again....pretty convenient for a fledgling church looking for acceptance and power.

I asked you before...if you were born in Iran...your whole family is Muslim, as was your family generations back...you are surrounded.by Muslim culture......you know enough to know about Christ, but your whole base of faith is that of a Muslim....and you are a faithful Muslim....not an extremist/terrorist....but a run of the mill devout Muslim, is God going to condemn you to hell for following what you've known.all your life?

IMO, you absolutists have no idea of God's capabilities, God's love and God's inclusiveness.

MAN separates.....MAN condemns.....MAN is self righteous.

GOD knows the circumstances of every individual's heart, mind and soul. Man doesn't.
 
Steelplate said:
Once again....pretty convenient for a fledgling church looking for acceptance and power.

I asked you before...if you were born in Iran...your whole family is Muslim, as was your family generations back...you are surrounded.by Muslim culture......you know enough to know about Christ, but your whole base of faith is that of a Muslim....and you are a faithful Muslim....not an extremist/terrorist....but a run of the mill devout Muslim, is God going to condemn you to hell for following what you've known.all your life?

IMO, you absolutists have no idea of God's capabilities, God's love and God's inclusiveness.

MAN separates.....MAN condemns.....MAN is self righteous.

GOD knows the circumstances of every individual's heart, mind and soul. Man doesn't.
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actually, I have confidence that God is smart enough to find a way to determine whether or not they choose to believe in him or not believe in him.....and think that if they choose not to believe in him then no, as it says in John 3 then they will stand condemned by that choice.....

now, you dodged answering the question.....did you or did you not deny what is stated in John 3?
 
PostmodernProphet said:
actually, I have confidence that God is smart enough to find a way to determine whether or not they choose to believe in him or not believe in him.....and think that if they choose not to believe in him then no, as it says in John 3 then they will stand condemned by that choice.....

now, you dodged answering the question.....did you or did you not deny what is stated in John 3?
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Once again...where did I deny that?
 
let me ask this......you have indicated that you are a Christian.....have you ever read John 3:16?......

"16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

have you ever heard anyone say that Christians attach some significance to this verse?.....

do you see anything there that might be contradicted by the statement, "I think your belief in Christ has nothing to do with it"........
 
PostmodernProphet said:
let me ask this......you have indicated that you are a Christian.....have you ever read John 3:16?......

"16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

have you ever heard anyone say that Christians attach some significance to this verse?.....

do you see anything there that might be contradicted by the statement, "I think your belief in Christ has nothing to do with it"........
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Yes... I am extremely familiar with 3:16....and I do believe that, you've obviously only been reading the parts of my posts that upset you.

However, I admittedly....FROM THE VERY BEGINNING said that I struggle with the concept of folk from different cultures.being condemned to eternally damnation by a God that created us ALL.....because they don't worship him as Christians.

You are looking for a fight where there is none.
 
PMP's god must like fights.

I don't believe in god; but if I was forced to choose one, Steelplate's is a heckuva lot more attractive than PMP's.
 
Steelplate said:
Yes... I am extremely familiar with 3:16....and I do believe that, you've obviously only been reading the parts of my posts that upset you.
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can you explain how "belief in Christ has nothing to do with it" is not a denial of "whoever believes in him will have eternal life"......
 
tekkychick said:
Actually, he'll be more surprised to find out there's no god, no heaven. Of course, he won't be aware of anything after death, so guess he won't be surprised, just more oblivious than he is now.

But if there is a heaven, I don't see how PMP gets in unless he's way different in "real life" than on this board.
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And how surprised are you going to be when you discover that there is a God and a Heaven?
If I choose to believe and I'm wrong, then I just wasted my time; but if you choose to not believe and you're wrong; well, then you just wasted your life.
 
Pete Campbell said:
Yeah people on the internet doing some light hearted mocking of something heavily normalized and entrenched within our society is like the worst thing ever.

basically you hate everyone, even those you agree with ideologically, and you want to feel superior about it. like you weren't enjoying the god delusion no more than 1.5 years ago. but now you are way better than that. you can be such a tool watermark.
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More like 3, bitch.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
can you explain how "belief in Christ has nothing to do with it" is not a denial of "whoever believes in him will have eternal life"......
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I said YOUR belief in Christ....not belief in General.....and what I was referring to is not your salvation....but using your status of salvation as a tool to demean others and support a political agenda where greed is celebrated and poverty is scoffed at.

Granted, you're not as bad as some of the others, like Boris and a few others....but you are still walking a path that is....IMO, a dangerous one.

I have my own problems....problems of questioning....I know that.
 
Steelplate said:
I said YOUR belief in Christ....not belief in General.....
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pretty weak dodge.....especially since I made no attempt to use salvation to demean anyone or support any political agenda.....however, I will agree to drop your misrepresentation of Christian doctrine if you admit you simply fucked up......

as far as walking a dangerous path it can get no worse than in encouraging people to believe there are other ways to salvation than through Jesus Christ.....you already have tekkychick wandering down a path to eternal damnation believing in the god you enticed her with.......
 
PostmodernProphet said:
pretty weak dodge.....especially since I made no attempt to use salvation to demean anyone or support any political agenda.....however, I will agree to drop your misrepresentation of Christian doctrine if you admit you simply fucked up......

as far as walking a dangerous path it can get no worse than in encouraging people to believe there are other ways to salvation than through Jesus Christ.....you already have tekkychick wandering down a path to eternal damnation believing in the god you enticed her with.......
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Bull.....your posts reek of it. You throw people who's sins that you don't commit under the bus on a continual basis.

My God is your God. I proposed a question that I admittedly struggle with.....I asked this question in earnest.....but you tiptoed around the question and attacked me.....which is your MO.

As far as Tekkychick.....she didn't(IIRC) say she believed in either....just that she likes "my God" better than yours....to which I explained that My God is the same as yours, the difference.is.the.mindset.

You....seem to think that you know exactly what happened under Constantine....like you were there. I don't pretend to know that....I suggest the possibility of Political corruption of our.holy book and gave specific examples that trouble me, and.one where the Catholic Church actually admitted lying about.

God is infallible....Man isn't....not by a long shot.
 
Steelplate said:
You throw people who's sins that you don't commit under the bus on a continual basis.
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not true....I point out ignorance and irrationality......I've repeatedly pointed out that I believe that I and everyone sin constantly and equally......

I suggest the possibility of Political corruption of our.holy book and gave specific examples that trouble me
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well that's pretty stupid in itself isn't it?.....though convenient....if you throw out God's word you get to make up your own......

God is infallible....Man isn't....not by a long shot.
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obviously you don't think God is infallible if you don't think he can even convey his intent to you without it being perverted by political corruption.....
 
PostmodernProphet said:
not true....I point out ignorance and irrationality......I've repeatedly pointed out that I believe that I and everyone sin constantly and equally......

Then why do you harp on gays and abortion? Because they are easy targets for you. Why don't you harp on greed, the exploitation of the poor in the way of wages that people can't live on, and other sexual immorality? I don't see you harping against adultery? Why should adulterers be allowed to remarry? No....you attack the sins that are easiest to attack and the rest....which are much more damaging....go by the wayside.



well that's pretty stupid in itself isn't it?.....though convenient....if you throw out God's word you get to make up your own......

I don't make up my own.....I question. My religious base is the same as yours.



obviously you don't think God is infallible if you don't think he can even convey his intent to you without it being perverted by political corruption.....
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Ahh...the old "divine inspiration" angle. Well, why did the Church have to recant about Mary Magdalene?

Another thing that bugs me....Christ knew what his purpose was on Earth....He knew he was going to die for our sins. That means Judas' "betrayal" was just a means to facilitate God's will.....why is Judas portrayed as a pariah?

In fact, there is scripture in the Gnostic Gospels that claims that Christ recruited Judas personally for the task because he was one of the most trusted of the Apostles. But the Gnostic Gospels didn't make the cut at Nicaea.....why? Because the Gnostics believe that the way to God is a path of enlightenment.....to learn from others and not judge them....The Church didn't like the idea of them not being in charge.

These are the things I question....it's not that I deny them....that's where you and I have some kind of ridiculous line in the sand.

EDIT: do me a favor....don't use multi-quotes anymore....I am on tapatalk and it screws up.....my first response is embedded in what I quoted. Use numbered responses or something.
 
Steelplate said:
It's the same God, Hon.....Just a different thought process.
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Oh, if I decide to posit one god, might as well posit a myriad of them. Maybe the mormons are right and we all become gods of our own planets post-death.

No offense meant to you or other believers, Steelplate; but one god, many gods, zeus/hera, tree gods, rain gods - it's all fairy tales to me.

But I like your version of the fairy tale better than PMPs; if I was reading one to kids, his would get tossed in the trash.

You may say your god is the same as PMPs; but if so, one of you is terribly wrong. Maybe PMP really is worshipping someone different.
 
believe what you want but don't organize.

Its in the organizing of religion that the problem comes in.

when you organize these beliefs you craft a leash, put it around your neck and hand the lead end to someone else.


POWER corrupts and destroys the good intentions of all beliefs.
 
evince said:
believe what you want but don't organize.

Its in the organizing of religion that the problem comes in.

when you organize these beliefs you craft a leash, put it around your neck and hand the lead end to someone else.


POWER corrupts and destroys the good intentions of all beliefs.
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Does the same apply to unions? Community organizing like ACORN?
 
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