Worst argument for religion that I've read, ever.

I am honestly having a conflict of spirituality lately. On one hand, I am drawn to the traditional Christian doctrine of Heaven/Hell....Reward/Punishment. But on the other hand, I also have had a very much an Eastern influence of a sense of spiritual growth....where we are put here on this Earth to learn and to transfer our life lessons to help others and to learn from our own mistakes.

I have come to a tentative conclusion(subject to change as I grow older), that we are very much here to learn to love and understand one another, rather than to differentiate and to seperate ourselves from one another.
 
Steelplate said:
I am honestly having a conflict of spirituality lately. On one hand, I am drawn to the traditional Christian doctrine of Heaven/Hell....Reward/Punishment. But on the other hand, I also have had a very much an Eastern influence of a sense of spiritual growth....where we are put here on this Earth to learn and to transfer our life lessons to help others and to learn from our own mistakes.

I have come to a tentative conclusion(subject to change as I grow older), that we are very much here to learn to love and understand one another, rather than to differentiate and to seperate ourselves from one another.
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I have studied and from my reading, I think Jesus was influenced by Eastern thought, if you look at the sayings of Jesus, apart from the narrative of the gospels, his thoughts are very Eastern.

Bill Moyer did a series with Joseph Campbell called, "The Power of Myth", it is excellent. I highly recommend it.

Good luck to you, I experienced the same thing, doubt, and now I don't have religion. My spirituality is based in awe of life and how minuscule we are compared to the universe.

Seek your bliss. Joseph Campbell
 
Rana said:
I have studied and from my reading, I think Jesus was influenced by Eastern thought, if you look at the sayings of Jesus, apart from the narrative of the gospels, his thoughts are very Eastern.

Bill Moyer did a series with Joseph Campbell called, "The Power of Myth", it is excellent. I highly recommend it.

Good luck to you, I experienced the same thing, doubt, and now I don't have religion. My spirituality is based in awe of life and how minuscule we are compared to the universe.

Seek your bliss. Joseph Campbell
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I am not familiar with Joseph Campbell. I am, however....infatuated with....and I hate to admit this....psychic Mediums. I've watched some of the "Crossing Over" and John Edward Cross Country episodes with a degree of healthy skepticism. More recently, I watch Theresa Caputo's " Long Island Medium" on TLC.

And I find.myself with a surprisingly open(but very much a "show me") kind of mind about folk who are able to communicate with people who have passed on. That there is a higher state of consciousness that we aren't privy to until we ourselves cross over, and finally, that our goal on this plane is not to acquire material possessions, but to reach out, help, and.love as unconditionally as.possible. Those selfless actions and beliefs will allow our souls to grow and evolve on the other side.

I know that this line of thinking is tantamount to blasphemy to my own Christian Upbringing. Where we live our lives the best we can, ask Christ to forgive our sins, and then we live in paradise for eternity......I think we grow in this life and in the afterlife.
 
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Steelplate said:
I am not familiar with Joseph Campbell. I am, however....infatuated with....and I hate to admit this....psychic Mediums. I've watched some of the "Crossing Over" and John Edward Cross Country episodes with a degree of healthy skepticism. More recently, I watch Theresa Caputo's " Long Island Medium" on TLC.

And I find.myself with a surprisingly open(but very much a "show me") kind of mind about folk who are able to communicate with people who have passed on. That there is a higher state of consciousness that we aren't privy to until we ourselves cross over, and finally, that our goal on this plane is not to acquire material possessions, but to reach out, help, and.love as unconditionally as.possible. Those selfless actions and beliefs will allow our souls to grow and evolve on the other side.

I know that this line of thinking is tantamount to blasphemy to my own Christian Upbringing. Where we live our lives the best we can, ask Christ to forgive our sins, and then we live in paradise for eternity......I think we grow in this life and in the afterlife.
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Interesting, I like to ponder different thinking as well.
 
Rana said:
if you look at the sayings of Jesus, apart from the narrative of the gospels his thoughts are very Eastern.
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/boggle......and where else do you find the sayings of Jesus.....perhaps in some documents written centuries later by someone who's been influenced by the Eastern religions?.....
 
PostmodernProphet said:
/boggle......and where else do you find the sayings of Jesus.....perhaps in some documents written centuries later by someone who's been influenced by the Eastern religions?.....
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I think what she is saying is that there are parallels that transcend sectarian beliefs. All religions have certain things in common....the idea that our bodies are just vessels for our souls(consciousness....whatever). That our souls do not die when our body does.

One thing that's bothered.me over the years is this.....the idea that God will punish whoever doesn't accept Christian Doctrine unquestioningly. Now....let's suppose for a minute that you weren't born here.....let's suppose you were born into a Hindu, Buddhist or Muslim region of the world. Your parents were that religion, and have been for generations. Your whole culture is based on and influenced by that religion.....and you believe in that religion as strongly as you currently do with Christianity.

You follow this religion's doctrine, you take great care to be as kind, loving and helpful to whoever you meet. Then.....one day you die.

I'm supposed to believe that God is going to send you to eternal damnation because you believed a different religion? Yes, I know the passage...."no one gets to the father except through me"....but without scripture, tell me how this makes sense. Use your own words, your own mind.

I happen to think the Creator of the Universe is bigger than that.....is more understanding than that, and is infinitely more Just than that.

I also believe that Churches like power and influence.....so they create these separations....partially because of faith, but also for their own standing and benefit.
 
Steelplate said:
One thing that's bothered.me over the years is this.....the idea that God will punish whoever doesn't accept Christian Doctrine unquestioningly. Now....let's suppose for a minute that you weren't born here.....let's suppose you were born into a Hindu, Buddhist or Muslim region of the world. Your parents were that religion, and have been for generations. Your whole culture is based on and influenced by that religion.....and you believe in that religion as strongly as you currently do with Christianity.

You follow this religion's doctrine, you take great care to be as kind, loving and helpful to whoever you meet. Then.....one day you die.

I'm supposed to believe that God is going to send you to eternal damnation because you believed a different religion? Yes, I know the passage...."no one gets to the father except through me"....but without scripture, tell me how this makes sense. Use your own words, your own mind.

I happen to think the Creator of the Universe is bigger than that.....is more understanding than that, and is infinitely more Just than that.

I also believe that Churches like power and influence.....so they create these separations....partially because of faith, but also for their own standing and benefit.
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I agree. I had a discussion (which I've referenced elsewhere on this site) with a customer once; she was a fervent christian, evangelical I believe. I was asking her about this - what if someone in a small tribe somewhere had never even heard of Jesus, did she really mean they wouldn't go to heaven? She said yes - that they should have just "intuited" the existence of Jesus Christ and decided to follow him.

I don't think there's a god. But if there WAS one and she rejected someone who lived a good life just because they didn't worship in her preferred form of religion, well, who wout want to hang out with that kind of god anyway? No, any god worth following would not be that petty.
 
tekkychick said:
I agree. I had a discussion (which I've referenced elsewhere on this site) with a customer once; she was a fervent christian, evangelical I believe. I was asking her about this - what if someone in a small tribe somewhere had never even heard of Jesus, did she really mean they wouldn't go to heaven? She said yes - that they should have just "intuited" the existence of Jesus Christ and decided to follow him.

I don't think there's a god. But if there WAS one and she rejected someone who lived a good life just because they didn't worship in her preferred form of religion, well, who wout want to hang out with that kind of god anyway? No, any god worth following would not be that petty.
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They have made god in their image, not vice versa, in my opinion.

I was watching a show on the mechanism built by ancients. There were a lot of machines invented to trick the people into believing the gods and goddesses were performing miracles. It stretgthens my belief that priests are con men!
 
Steelplate said:
I happen to think the Creator of the Universe is bigger than that.....is more understanding than that, and is infinitely more Just than that
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fine....but just because he gives other options to people who've never heard of him and didn't have opportunity to choose, do you think that give you the right to tell HIM what you have to believe before he saves your ass?......."I'm sorry God, but I decided you needed to be more understanding and forgiving, so get the fuck out of my way and let me into paradise!".......good luck with that.......
 
PostmodernProphet said:
fine....but just because he gives other options to people who've never heard of him and didn't have opportunity to choose, do you think that give you the right to tell HIM what you have to believe before he saves your ass?......."I'm sorry God, but I decided you needed to be more understanding and forgiving, so get the fuck out of my way and let me into paradise!".......good luck with that.......
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I didn't say they "didn't get to choose". I said that they followed their upbringing and their culture.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
?...could you be a happy camper in hell?......I understand there's no air conditioning.....
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Prophet, I have a feeling you're going to be unpleasantly surprised to see how many "liberals" greet you in heaven. I also.have a feeling that condemning others to hell is God's job.....not yours....so he might take exception to your arrogance and your false piety.....just saying.
 
Steelplate said:
Prophet, I have a feeling you're going to be unpleasantly surprised to see how many "liberals" greet you in heaven.
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I will be very surprised if I meet any that refuse to believe God even exists.......do you seriously expect to meet some?.....

I also.have a feeling that condemning others to hell is God's job.
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and do you recall what he said about those who refuse to believe in his son?......I didn't make the rule, I merely mentioned it.....

your false piety
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do you think my belief in the saving grace of Jesus Christ as the sole means of salvation to be false?.......is yours?.....
 
Steelplate said:
Prophet, I have a feeling you're going to be unpleasantly surprised to see how many "liberals" greet you in heaven. I also.have a feeling that condemning others to hell is God's job.....not yours....so he might take exception to your arrogance and your false piety.....just saying.
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Actually, he'll be more surprised to find out there's no god, no heaven. Of course, he won't be aware of anything after death, so guess he won't be surprised, just more oblivious than he is now.

But if there is a heaven, I don't see how PMP gets in unless he's way different in "real life" than on this board.
 
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