"Worst Economy Since Hoover" Sets Dow Record High!

Dixie said:
All I see is a post full of empty accusations, excuses, and spin. No one can argue that we aren't spending too much, or that the debt isn't growing larger. However, we know from the tried and true Reagan model, the debt can be reduced quickly, through balancing the budget, and growing the economy... well, the economy is growing, and if it weren't for two wars and Bush trying to appease liberals, the budget would be balanced. The debt has no effect on economic growth, we've had a debt for quite some time, and until we get rid of fruitcakes who want to tax and spend and pay for socialized medicine and such, we will probably always have a debt.

Unemployment is still calculated as it always has been, you can pretend that Bush has changed the numbers or how we calculate it, or whatever, you are insane. Inflation is not out of control, it's nearly non-existent! What world do you live in? Yes, gas prices have gone through the roof, largely due to the War on Terror and circumstances beyond our control, namely because liberal pinheads have refused to allow us to explore domestic alternatives to foreign oil supplies, and we depend on thugs like Chavez, to fuel the country... gas goes up, so does everything else, because virtually everything you buy at the store, required some amount of gas to get it there.

Essentially, everything you mentioned, is exacerbated by liberal pinheads or Bush trying to appease liberal pinheads, and is a really good motivation to elect a true Reagan conservative in '08.
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Got a problem, wonder who caused it. Don't fret trying to make calculations and anlyzing cause and effect. That's boring and gets you nowhere fast. Use the tried and true Dixie method. Don't think about it, just wrap your head in that great symbol of racial oppression and Black inferiority (I know as the Supreme Court said in Plessy v. Ferguson that great legal decision that made "separate but equal" the law of the land that any sense that separate facilities were somehow unequal was the a result of those who were trying to see it that way not anything inherent in the law) and remember that all the problems in the world are caused by "liberal pinheads." Now wasn't that easy. Your roof leaks, the pinheads caused it, especially those liberal ones. Your toilet is clogged, the pinheads caused it, more than likely the "liberal pinheads." Can't find a parking space, more than likely there is a liberal pinhead who just took the last available space. Have to wait in line at the grocery store, it's because of the liberal pinheads out buying groceries again. They are always out buying groceries. The liberal pinheads stay awake nights trying to think of things to do to mess with people so the next time you get a repair bill for some work that you just had done on your car and it's twice what you paid last time, remember there is no such thing as inflation it's just those liberal pinheads running around jacking up prices. And the next time you go to a bookstore and find that books that were $10 just last year are now $20, remember it's those liberal publishers, liberal authors, and liberal bookstore owners. In fact, every ill in the world is the result of liberal pinheads. Indeed, if it weren't for liberal pinheads Dixie wouldn't feel compelled to wrap his head in a symbol of repression, succession, and Black inferiority, for the sake of his forbears who believed and worshipped at the altar of these reprehensible beliefs and ideas.
 
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I know all the numbers USC, 20yrs of studying economics and I was born lower middle class on the other side of the tracks from you rich land barron's.
The average american is not doing as bad as everyone says. Though as ya'll point out they could do a lot better by investing more and staying away from debt.
Every family has 2 cars, computers, cable, ac, enough food to be obese.
It will be true that the average guy's wages continue to go down due to globalization (read slave wages) but walmart comes to the rescue with dirt cheap prices.
Now you want to see a good economy. Get a Clinton in office in 08 and have her be the one to end the war, and finish off the Gulf Coast rebuilding.
GDP would be over 4% under that rosey though not far fetched scenerio. Come on Clinton
 
I agree on the globalization and wally world thing, but feel that it has pretty much shot it's wad as far as keeping Americans buying power up. China's wages are rapidly increasing, still very low though, but profit margin must be maintained.

On the new clinton thing, we have the war costs and the high debt to contend with. If that money spent on the war had just been spent here on the gulf and alternate energy sources we would be sitting fat cat right now.
 
hopefully thats what the next group of dems will spend it on.
China's 10% wage growth from $2,200 a year is only $220 not going to affect us for 10 to 20 yrs.
 
10% is 10% prices of good to wally world , clothing stores, electronics stores, etc will go up somewhat. And that is 10% annually , opr something in that neighborhood.
 
uscitizen said:
I agree on the globalization and wally world thing, but feel that it has pretty much shot it's wad as far as keeping Americans buying power up. China's wages are rapidly increasing, still very low though, but profit margin must be maintained.

On the new clinton thing, we have the war costs and the high debt to contend with. If that money spent on the war had just been spent here on the gulf and alternate energy sources we would be sitting fat cat right now.
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This is where the greatest error is in nearly every discussion sooner or later: and that is this assumption that the "profit margin must be maintained." This is wrong, it is not enough to maintain the profit margin, every quarter profits have to increase. That is the motivation behind Trog's note yesterday that every year the amount of tobacco in cigarettes was reduced. In the 1990s it was still possible to increase profits every year now it is more appropriate and indeed generally required that profits increase every quarter. Which means that either a company has to reduce the cost of the product or increase the sales price or expand the customer base. But profits have to continually increase not just be maintained. That is what most people miss and that is what Marx saw very clearly and why he was right about his major assumptions regarding the crisis inherent in capitalism, if a little optimistic about when the crisis would occur. There is in fact a breaking point and we are coming increasingly closer to it day by day. After China, we have Africa (yes, there is another reason besides philanthropy that is driving Bill Gates and others to save the continent), and then if we don't find people on some other planet to buy our junk we are going to be in serious trouble.
 
You sound like a college student drinking the professors liberal kool aid.
This economy in recession is still way better than the second best big one which is Japan. Which part about economics is soo hard for you. LOL
 
uscitizen said:
Naah you are the one who went to college spin ;)
How was that koolaid anyway ?
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Notice that he doesn't refute my claim in any way, just tries to make some snide remark about college. Wasn't he the one who was just bragging about having gone to USC and is now making $200,000 this year after stock sales. Now he claims that I learned something from a professor. I guess he never learned to read. That isn't uncommon, I have another acquaintence who graduated from USC, he can't read and accurately interpret the average New York Times story. I tried one day for over an hour to show him what an article said, finally after I took him through it word by word, he was able to see what the story said, but it was a real struggle. I decided then that teaching others to read was too grueling. I always joke with him about joining a class action suit to get his tuition money refunded because he got robbed. Anybody who graduated from USC and can't comprehend a story in a newspaper written at the 11th grade level, should be able to sue I think for breach of contract or something...

The thing I really find amazing is that generally when you mention Marx you get a perfunctory put down but no attempt to deal with the rationality of the problems that Marx struggled with. Certainly there is no economist or stock purchaser in his right mind who will claim that capitalism is not predicated on the absolute necessity of continuously increasing profits and profit margins. In fact, our great middle class accumulator himself can only be successful if he regularly buys stocks that are going up in value of companies that have increaswed profits from year to year and quarter to quarter, or he uses one of the numerous tricks such as selling short to dump worthless stocks or stocks worth less. But Warren Buffet didn't make his money selling short, he made his money buying stocks that were continuously showing an increase in profits from year to year and quarter to quarter and thus increasing in value. That is why Buffet sticks with companies that sell disposables mostly. And those increases have to come from somewhere and it doesn't come from sitting back and relaxing. And the kinds of aggregations and concentrations that produce those ever increasing profits are based on what Marx called an ability to harness ever expanding global markets. Yeah, way back in the 1850s Marx already noticed how globalization was changing things and would indeed be necessary if capitalism was to survive, and companies were to continuously increase their profits from year to year, and now quarter to quarter.
 
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:clink: :clink: LOL pman, usc is how I refer to UScitizen.
I wish I did graduate from their. LOL
undergraduate at UNO, and MBA from Loyola

You sound like a professor with your marx worship over evil capitalism.
Why don't you tell us wich marxist economy has a higher per capita then us.
This should be funny.:clink:
 
Topspin said:
:clink: :clink: LOL pman, usc is how I refer to UScitizen.
I wish I did graduate from their. LOL
undergraduate at UNO, and MBA from Loyola

You sound like a professor with your marx worship over evil capitalism.
Why don't you tell us wich marxist economy has a higher per capita then us.
This should be funny.:clink:
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There is no such thing as a "marxist economy"! Marx didn't design any economies. In fact he didn't even finish most of his criticism of capitalism before his death. Even his most important work was finished after his death by Engels. So your question makes no sense. Sorry. Sounds like you're the one who needs the education. Maybe you should get together with my friend and join that class action lawsuit for return of your tuition. Marx did nothing more than look at capitalism and determine some of the problems that were inherently part of it and determined from what information he had at the time that given those problems it would eventually fail as a system. He misjudged several things including capitalism's ability to adapt to continuously changing conditions and how long it would take for the problems to reach a crisis. He also didn't anticipate the kinds of mechanisms that would be put in place to protect it as it matured.

In addition he failed to understand how capitalism would adapt and how it would be able to continuously produce newer products at an ever increasing rate and be able to sell those products to increasing numbers of consumers. How could he have imagined that producers would add another blade to a disposable razor every 6 months to make it "new"! But the basic and fundamental problems inherent in capitalism don't disappear just because it adapts to new situations and continuously produces "new" and "better" products and has proven effective at lasting longer than Marx imagined it would. In fact, Marx may have gotten some things wrong, actually fewer and fewer than many think it seems, as time goes on, but the questions he was asking and the ways he was analyzing the problems associated with finding those answers are still far more pertinent than your rather unknowledgeable put-down suggests.

It always helps to remember the rule of a good court-room attorney. If you are trying to set someone up never ask a question that you don't already know the answer to. And never ask a question that has the potential to make you look like you don't know what you are talking about or can be turned around on you.

As an MBA you should know that, but Bush has an MBA doesn't he????? I don't think Bush knows that, or maybe he does, almost every book you read by anyone who knows him says he never asks any questions at all. That Bush could turn out to be smarter than we think. Nah!!!!!
 
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Topspin said:
with all that hot air you have to be a professor or a lawyer:tongout:
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Sorry neither. But I am impressed that you would come up with those occupations. I have worked in warehouses as a common laborer most of my working life. What else you got??????

Oh, and if that part about the trial attorney threw you; I got that from the movie A Civil Action. You really should get out more...
 
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Spinner is of the capitalist extremus species Prakoh.
He knows all about finances and thinks everyone has no excuse not to be rich.
He thinks no one has to produce and all should just play the stock market.
He also works for big oil.
 
Prakosh said:
Good question, I want to say just U dub but it could be nation wide since I don't think they would have the resources to be closely following all last year's graduates. But it was in one of the books they keep there and when I pointed it out the person who I was talking to said she wished I hadn't seen it, since I already felt bad enough. I found it incredible that the more education you have the better your chances of unemployment become. The myth is it isn't supposed to work that way. It was disheartening to say the least...
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It's not really counterintuitive. As you go higher and higher, your specialty becomes more narrow
 
Troglodyte27 said:
I've seen reports that most high school grads can't balance a checkbook. Let's start there first.
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I balanced my checkbook when I was young, then I found out I could pretty much do it my head and generally remember within $2-$3 how much I had... I basically stopped doing it because the time I spent doing it seemed wasted to me. And I never had any money at the end of the pay period anyway. I would love to be able to get to the end of the pay period and actually have eaten breakfast that morning because I still had food left. That to me would be living large. Then everything went to credit cards and they started wanting to see your underwear if you wrote a check. Now I deal in cash. So they spend a lot of time holding the money up to the light. You really can't win anymore. I hate this system, I always will. It cries about how it can't find qualified workers but it has no efficient mechanism to evaluate abilities and link those abilities to jobs that require or that could gainfully and efficiently use those abilities. In effect it has no way of using the abilites efficiently of the people that exist in this country. I was in the grocery store the other day and some potato ship delivery guys were there stocking the potato chips, and they were college graduates. And then I went to the check out and the guy there seemed like a smart ass, so I asked him if he was a college graduate and he said he was. I told him that when I was his age high school dropouts were doing his job and they had to type in the prices and count the out the change. I'm still doing common labor mosly outdoors.
 
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Do you believe your skills are most efficiently used doing common labor? If so, why? And if not, what have you done to correct that?
 
Pman is the new biggest loser I have seen.
Hates this system that people are willing to die trying to get into.
Someone somewhere mislead you telling you the world owed you something buddy and It's taken you 50+ yrs to figure out it ain't coming.
Guess what the socialism you crave would give you even less.
 
Could you imagine if the entire world were this "employer"? If every employer couldn't care any less about each employee what would the world be like if the "employer" were all of society? Nobody at all would care if you lived or died... I can't imagine judging all humans of a certain group that way. Such a pessimistic attitude has got to effect you physically at some point in time.
 
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