Would the US be better off without the South?

[Cancel 2016.2]

as for your federal receipts/outlays per state comment. Again, the morons are the ones in the northeast that increase their costs of living to the point that wages escalate. It doesn't help your purchasing power, but it does get you idiots to pay more in taxes.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Again you're trying to equate cost with quality and I've already showed you how that fails. What you liberals call "investments" are in fact spending programs to prop up failed teacher's unions. The South is largely right-to-work and we just don't tolerate union bullshit.

Nor do you tolerate a decent living wage or quality of life for working people.

Listen to the implicit bigotry towards working class people in DY's comment. Whenever he or some anti-union right winger say's "Union" just incert the word "workers" or "laborers" or "working class" and you'll instantly see what they think of people who work for a living.

You simply do not value people who are productive and who work for a living. You only see them as a cheap commodity and the cheaper the better. Another reason why Northern values are superior and why we have a higher quality of life. Ya'll have lower wagers, poor health benefits, far riskier and unsafe working conditions and a far higher threat of arbitrary job termination.

Ya'll want to know what the Southern strategy for economic growth is in this country? It's very simple.

Exploit labor for the lowest wages possible.
Slurp as much jizz from economic elites as possible.
Fuck the environment.

That's southern economic strategy in a nutshell.

 

[Cancel 2016.11]

Mott you're kicking ass on this thread!

 

[Mott the Hoople]

as for your federal receipts/outlays per state comment. Again, the morons are the ones in the northeast that increase their costs of living to the point that wages escalate. It doesn't help your purchasing power, but it does get you idiots to pay more in taxes.

That we invest in our roads, our schools, our electrical grid, our public utilities, our public health facilities, etc, etc.

What's stupid of the North is that we allow the South to siphon off 30 to 40% of our Federal tax dollars so that they can get away with not investing in their communities and States.

That's why we need a constitutional ammendment that, excepting a natural disaster, States can only recieve in Federal dollars what they pay into the Federal treasury. That way we can use our money to invest in our States and communities instead of propping these clowns up. Take away those Federal dollars that we up North produced and it may force the South to start investing in their own States and communities or suffer the consequences.

You shouldn't have a problem with that, do you?

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Nor do you tolerate a decent living wage or quality of life for working people.

It cracks me up when liberals use the vague description above. It is 100% subjective. What is a 'decent living wage or quality of live'???

You also attempt class warfare bullshit by referring to 'working people'.

Listen to the implicit bigotry towards working class people in DY's comment.

and listen to your bigotry towards those you perceive 'don't work'

Whenever he or some anti-union right winger say's "Union" just incert the word "workers" or "laborers" or "working class" and you'll instantly see what they think of people who work for a living.

So much irony.

You simply do not value people who are productive and who work for a living. You only see them as a cheap commodity and the cheaper the better. Another reason why Northern values are superior and why we have a higher quality of life. Ya'll have lower wagers, poor health benefits, far riskier and unsafe working conditions and a far higher threat of arbitrary job termination.

You have yet to show that you have a 'higher quality of life'. Simply proclaiming it does not make it so. Show us where you are seeing data for the bolded.

Ya'll want to know what the Southern strategy for economic growth is in this country? It's very simple.

Exploit labor for the lowest wages possible.
Slurp as much jizz from economic elites as possible.
Fuck the environment.

That's southern economic strategy in a nutshell.

No, thats northern elitist bullshit in a nutshell.

 

[Cancel 2016.11]

That we invest in our roads, our schools, our electrical grid, our public utilities, our public health facilities, etc, etc.

What's stupid of the North is that we allow the South to siphon off 30 to 40% of our Federal tax dollars so that they can get away with not investing in their communities and States.

That's why we need a constitutional ammendment that, excepting a natural disaster, States can only recieve in Federal dollars what they pay into the Federal treasury. That way we can use our money to invest in our States and communities instead of propping these clowns up. Take away those Federal dollars that we up North produced and it may force the South to start investing in their own States and communities or suffer the consequences.

You shouldn't have a problem with that, do you?

Man I fucking love this idea.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Mott you're kicking ass on this thread!

Thanks. Like I've said...I've lived in the South and I've read the data and I've seen first hand how they drag the rest of the nation down.

The South essentially lacks four values that make the rest of America stronger and with a higher quality of life than the South has and the lack of these values is why the South drags down the rest of the Nation.

They don't respect secular government.
They don't respect racial equality.
They don't respect working people.
They don't respect public/community investment (education in particular).

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

That we invest in our roads, our schools, our electrical grid, our public utilities, our public health facilities, etc, etc.

We all do you dolt.

What's stupid of the North is that we allow the South to siphon off 30 to 40% of our Federal tax dollars so that they can get away with not investing in their communities and States.

Again you dolt... why is it that you pay more in? Oh yeah, it is as I stated and you ignored... because the higher cost of living. Which means your dollars do not go as far as the dollars in the south. (which means you are the idiots for overpaying when it need not be the case). Add in the fact that it is morons like you that think the roads and other infrastructure should have set pricing at federal levels... which means you over pay in lower cost of living areas. Which means it is your fault that it costs as much as it does in the south to build federally funded infrastructure. You insist upon the set wage, rather than let the market in each state dictate costs. Then you bitch about having to pay.

Again, if you force your cost of living up, which drives up wages (not purchasing power) then you are going to pay more in taxes for the SAME standard of living as someone who makes less in a lower cost of living area. What part of this are you failing to grasp?

That's why we need a constitutional ammendment that, excepting a natural disaster, States can only recieve in Federal dollars what they pay into the Federal treasury. That way we can use our money to invest in our States and communities instead of propping these clowns up. Take away those Federal dollars that we up North produced and it may force the South to start investing in their own States and communities or suffer the consequences.

You shouldn't have a problem with that, do you?

LMAO... you know what you are advocating don't you? The end of the federal income tax. Why should people in GA send money to DC only to have DC return the same money back to them? If every state gets back what they pay in, then what is the point of the federal income tax? Maybe charge each state on a per capita basis for defense? Call it a day?

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Man I fucking love this idea.

So do most libertarians and conservatives. Because you are effectively ending the federal income tax and most federal intrusion into the states.

 

[Phantasmal]

I just love how SF pretends he doesnt know the meaning of common phrases

In public policy, a living wage or subsistence wage is the minimum income necessary for a worker to meet basic needs (for an extended period of time or for a lifetime). These needs include shelter (housing) and other incidentals such as clothing and nutrition.

Glad to be of help.

The definition comes from wiki.

 

[DamnYankee]

I just love how SF pretends he doesnt know the meaning of common phrases.

We call that "unassuming". It used to be a laudable trait.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Thanks. Like I've said...I've lived in the South and I've read the data and I've seen first hand how they drag the rest of the nation down.

The South essentially lacks four values that make the rest of America stronger and with a higher quality of life than the South has and the lack of these values is why the South drags down the rest of the Nation.

They don't respect secular government.
They don't respect racial equality.
They don't respect working people.
They don't respect public/community investment.

You are truly an idiot. You live in the shit stain of the country and pretend that you have a higher quality of life in OHIO than do the people of N. Carolina, GA, AL, etc...

that is pure nonsense. As for your 'values' that you claim the south lacks... that is complete bullshit based on nothing more than your elitist attitude.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Man I fucking love this idea.

I bet you do. Your region (NY/NJ) only gets to keep a little more than 60% of your Federal Tax Dollars. The rest is going to Mississippi, Alabama, South Carolina, Louisianna, etc. Just think about how much better your State and your community would be if the South wasn't syphoning off monies that you could use for public investment such as education, public health, infrastructure, public utilities, etc, etc.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

I just love how SF pretends he doesnt know the meaning of common phrases

Do you think the below is what Mutt is referring to? The point is that it is a subjective term. It has been used on this board many times to mean many different things.

In public policy, a living wage or subsistence wage is the minimum income necessary for a worker to meet basic needs (for an extended period of time or for a lifetime). These needs include shelter (housing) and other incidentals such as clothing and nutrition.

If you are talking about shelter, clothing and nutrition, then I don't think many would disagree. That said, most jobs do pay for such. But liberals seem to think ALL jobs should do so. That is the difference. Unskilled jobs should not. Unskilled jobs are designed to help people get experience... typically HS and college age kids/adults. The unskilled jobs are also there for a secondary source of income. They are NOT designed to be taken by people who are the primary breadwinners. But you all don't grasp that fact.

Glad to be of help.

The definition comes from wiki.

I do appreciate the attempt to define it. As for wiki... yeah, glad some random person typed that in there. That totally makes it the one and only definition.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

We all do you dolt.

No we all don't. Half of all public investment in States like Alabama and West Virginia comes from Federal funding that those States didn't pay for. For example, for every dollar in Federal Taxes Alabama pays, they recieve another dollar from the rest of the country to make up for their short fall in public investment. So, in fact, the rest of the nation pays for half of Alabama's cost of public education, public safety, public infrastructure, public health, etc, etc. So no, you are factually wrong. We don't All do that.

Again you dolt... why is it that you pay more in? Oh yeah, it is as I stated and you ignored... because the higher cost of living. Which means your dollars do not go as far as the dollars in the south. (which means you are the idiots for overpaying when it need not be the case). Add in the fact that it is morons like you that think the roads and other infrastructure should have set pricing at federal levels... which means you over pay in lower cost of living areas. Which means it is your fault that it costs as much as it does in the south to build federally funded infrastructure. You insist upon the set wage, rather than let the market in each state dictate costs. Then you bitch about having to pay.

Again, if you force your cost of living up, which drives up wages (not purchasing power) then you are going to pay more in taxes for the SAME standard of living as someone who makes less in a lower cost of living area. What part of this are you failing to grasp?

What moronic dribble. We pay more in Federal Taxes cause we produce more you dipshit! Federal tax rates are the same in Ohio or Massachuset as they are in Alabama or Mississippi. Lord what a stupid comment.

LMAO... you know what you are advocating don't you? The end of the federal income tax. Why should people in GA send money to DC only to have DC return the same money back to them? If every state gets back what they pay in, then what is the point of the federal income tax? Maybe charge each state on a per capita basis for defense? Call it a day?

The point of the Federal Income tax is to pay for governmental services that benefit the nation as a whole that the States cannot or will not provide. What you and Southerners are advocating is socialism where you take from those of us in the rest of the nation that produce and redistribute it to the South.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

No we all don't. Half of all public investment in States like Alabama and West Virginia comes from Federal funding that those States didn't pay for. For example, for every dollar in Federal Taxes Alabama pays, they recieve another dollar from the rest of the country to make up for their short fall in public investment. So, in fact, the rest of the nation pays for half of Alabama's cost of public education, public safety, public infrastructure, public health, etc, etc. So no, you are factually wrong. We don't All do that.

No, we all pay for it. Again, because people like YOU insist upon paying the same wages regardless of cost of living, you are simply paying the portion that they would not otherwise have paid. You are in turn paying the extra that you insist be paid.

What moronic dribble. We pay more in Federal Taxes cause we produce more you dipshit! Federal tax rates are the same in Ohio or Massachuset as they are in Alabama or Mississippi. Lord what a stupid comment.

LMAO... you think you pay taxes based on GDP? Talk about a stupid fucking comment.

The point of the Federal Income tax is to pay for governmental services that benefit the nation as a whole that the States cannot or will not provide. What you and Southerners are advocating is socialism where you take from those of us in the rest of the nation that produce and redistribute it to the South.

No moron... I am advocating exactly what you just did. A massive reduction in the federal income tax system. Let states pay for things that they need. Let the Federal government organize the things the nation needs as a whole (such as defense). We can pay on a per capita basis for that.

As I stated, it is the higher cost of living that gets you idiots in the north to pay more into the system. You do it to yourself.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Another note Mutt... take a look at a map of Military bases in the US...

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...9PeUdbUEsGJyAGNn4DgDQ&ved=0CC8Q9QEwAQ&dur=551

How many are in the south vs. the northeast? You think that might also skew the federal tax dollars going back to those states?

 

[Mott the Hoople]

You are truly an idiot. You live in the shit stain of the country and pretend that you have a higher quality of life in OHIO than do the people of N. Carolina, GA, AL, etc...

that is pure nonsense. As for your 'values' that you claim the south lacks... that is complete bullshit based on nothing more than your elitist attitude.

I do have a higher quality of life where I live now vs when I was living in the South. I live in a community that's two public high schools (Dublin, Jerome & Dublin, Coffman) that are rated as two of the best high schools in the nation (public or private). The median household income here is over $100,000/year (my household income is slightly below the median). We have some of the lowest violent and property crime rates in the nation. My quality of life is far higher than it was when I lived in the south and I earn nearly double what I did in the South doing the same damned job.

As for the rest being being elitist bullshit.....you need to walk the talk. Go set up shop in Jackson, MS and come back and talk to me in a couple of years and tell me how much better the quality of life is there vs. Colorado.

As for the four values I posted. If you don't believe the South lacks those than son you've either never been to the south for any length of time or your a damned fool or both.

 

[DamnYankee]

Oh what bullshit. Ya'll don't pay property taxes for your public education, infrastrastructure or public safety....

Since this is the basis for the rest of your text diarrhea I only need comment on this portion.

According to NC law, since it's in our state Constitution that every child gets access to public education, the state pays for base teacher's salaries and student transportation. The local school districts pay for school infrastructure, administrative staff, and in many cases incentive payments to teachers. These of course are funded by the local portion of sales taxes but most importantly by property taxes. It varies by county, but most counties have consolidated school districts. My own county has a central school board and administrative staff to mange something like six high schools, 15 middle schools and 40 or so elementary schools. With all that consolidation there are huge costs savings but also resources to better serve students with special needs, be it physical, emotional, problem kids, or academically gifted. We have a central high school that serves students heading for technical careers along with specialized AP classes that couldn't be filled in an individual high school. For example my son was able to take an advanced computer networking class that only attracted 6 students, out of county-wide high school enrollment of about 8000.

Some of the more rural counties have intra-consolidated school districts. Some of of our smaller municipal governments consolidate services under regional authorities.

Most municipalities contract out services such as trash collection, sewer and water, street maintenance, street lighting and recycling. Many of the larger cities that can justify a municipal service staff put those services up for bid in three year rotations. The public staff has to compete with a private enterprise that wants their jobs!

With regards to public safety, the state has a "trooper" system to police state-owned highways (which are most of the roads) as well as an investigative agency and some of the best crime labs in the country. In fact they've recently been awarded international recognition. Local counties has sheriffs and local municipalities can elect to have their own police forces. Most towns use their County Sheriff's office instead of having their own police force by paying for a small satellite office along with the salaries of deputies that are dedicated to within the town boundaries.

And of course as I said before we are right-to-work, so no-one is forced to join a union. Public employees that don't do their jobs are fired as easily as a private contractor.

So consolidation, work ethic, and efficiency is why we enjoy such low tax rates. Compare that to the Northeast where every po-dunk town has its own school system, its own police department, heck my home town had its own electrical power department.

 

[DamnYankee]

I do have a higher quality of life where I live now vs when I was living in the South. I live in a community that's two public high schools (Dublin, Jerome & Dublin, Coffman) that are rated as two of the best high schools in the nation (public or private). The median household income here is over $100,000/year (my household income is slightly below the median). We have some of the lowest violent and property crime rates in the nation. My quality of life is far higher than it was when I lived in the south and I earn nearly double what I did in the South doing the same damned job.

As for the rest being being elitist bullshit.....you need to walk the talk. Go set up shop in Jackson, MS and come back and talk to me in a couple of years and tell me how much better the quality of life is there vs. Colorado.

As for the four values I posted. If you don't believe the South lacks those than son you've either never been to the south for any length of time or your a damned fool or both.

Weren't you the one whining about anecdotal evidence?