A little history for those wanting to 'restore Palestine'.

serendipity said:
Douglas Murray speaks the truth, Arabs loath the Palestinians and only ever care when Jews are involved. Was there a peep from Arabs about Assad killing hundreds of thousands of Muslims in Syria, not bloody likely.

https://youtube.com/shorts/dTWoUo-vXrg?si=d7zGQytPluBt2qf8
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^^^ that is correct.

The only thing the Arab nations hated more than having a Jewish State on their doorstep was the idea of having an Jewish AND Palestinian state on their doorstep.


The Arab nations were very open about all this in the Khartoum Summit after losing their last major war to Israel. They spoke of a need to shift tactics and not attack Israel directly and instead to weaponize the "Palestinian desire for a homeland' as a weapon they could direct at Israel. They spoke very bluntantly about needing to use Oil proceeds to do so, since long term that would be cheaper for them then trying to fight frontal wars they would never win.

It is why i say Israel and the Palestinian people are in a checkmate situation, as they ARE NOT the two parties who can decide on a peace or a 2 State solution. It will NEVER happen when the Arab money will just flood in and pay a few key power players billions (Arafat got over $1B) to scuttle the deal and to ramp up attacks to derail it.
 
QP! said:
So your 'main reason' is that Palestinians are drawing a line of 'All or None' when it comes to any land offer?

I do not agree with your position but if it is accurate then i say the Palestinians will fail on that, as the disputed lands are vast and far and predate any Arab occupations in the region and I would lose all my sympathies for any group who draw such a hard line, when it is clear it is unworkable.

If the Palestinians have a chance to establish a State, even if only a portion of the lands they feel they deserve, they should grab it, because from with the establishment of a State they will gain more power to push for more land concessions over time, and to better help their own people to some semblance of stability and a homeland.
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That so-called “hard line” goes in both directions. The Jews (prior to 1948) with the Zionist movement to remove and now the Israelis to keep the Palestinians removed from their own land, is certainly hard line.

And where do you propose this “state” should be? The desolated area we call Gaza? The one that looks like something out of a nuclear war movie? Or the West Bank, where the Israelis continue to illegally build settlements?

The current government of Israel is as hard line as it gets. Hamas light, if you wish. Carrying out atrocities on their enemy, albeit at a lesser level. But for decades. There is no solution until reasonable governments take control. I don’t see that happening anytime in near future.
 
domer76 said:
The key phrase from above: “The Jews were to possess more than half of Palestine, although they made up less than half of Palestine’s population.”

The bottom line, is that it was not the British land to give, they made promises they didn’t keep and the Jews made laws that legalized their theft of land. No two ways about it.
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I do not have any sides in this dispute. Historical disputes are so convoluted and complex and can be viewed from many sides by differing parties.

I am curious who you think had the rights to the lands 'to give' or 'not give' and how you think their claim was established and cannot be challenged.

I recognize, like Doc Dutch does, that sadly most of this world and its borders were set by War and 'might making right' and if we say that does not apply when it comes to Israel and Britain then do you think it applies to current day America, Canada, and much of Europe and Africa where near all (if not all) country lines were decided via 'Might makes right'?

And i am not trying to judge your position. just trying to understand it. Would you support the undoing of all those others borders under a consistent premise and logic?
 
Phantasmal said:
The US supports them in their quest to end Hamas. The US, or most of the US, do not support the slaughter of innocence.
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And as i like to point out, Hamas enjoys that they have Israel in a true checkmate situation now.

There was a Hamas leader interviewed right after the attacks who was celebrating the coming deaths of Palestinians he knew Israel would be forced to do, in their attempts to engage Hamas from their embedded positions. He spoke of the glories of prior martyrs and the vast numbers of them as if there was no higher service or honor these palestinians could provide than their deaths and the condemnation it would cause.

So while i despise the deaths Israel has caused i also see no way around it other than letting Hamas getaway with it. There is no Plan B, that routes out Hamas.

And if Israel does not route them out, out of fear of civilian casualties and condemnation, then Hamas knows they won. They will simply escalate to bigger and bigger attacks with no reprisal or until Israel feels they have to attack, and start this cycle again.

I repeat that the US or no major country would accept it. If the US faced the same situation with attack from within Canada or Mexico that neither country could root out as it so deeply embedded in population areas, I have no doubt the US would give an order for all civilians to clear out, and would drop MOAB or some similar bombs that would just turn the entire area into a parking lot and say 'we warned civilians to clear out, all deaths are on the terrorists, not us'.
 
QP! said:
I do not have any sides in this dispute. Historical disputes are so convoluted and complex and can be viewed from many sides by differing parties.

I am curious who you think had the rights to the lands 'to give' or 'not give' and how you think their claim was established and cannot be challenged.

I recognize, like Doc Dutch does, that sadly most of this world and its borders were set by War and 'might making right' and if we say that does not apply when it comes to Israel and Britain then do you think it applies to current day America, Canada, and much of Europe and Africa where near all (if not all) country lines were decided via 'Might makes right'?

And i am not trying to judge your position. just trying to understand it. Would you support the undoing of all those others borders under a consistent premise and logic?
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I think most of us have come to the conclusion that the genocide and mass transfer of native lands and possessions in America and Canada were moral failures and tragedies of unimaginable proportions. This country is still seeing the effects of those events. So, we continue to use those as examples of “tough shit, that’s how the cookie crumbles”? Shame on us as humans, then.

The facts are that the Palestinians lived, worked, farmed, conducted trade and business in those lands. They were merely under the rule of the Ottomans, who chose the losing side in WWI. At that time, colonial Britain called the shots and their leaders were heavily influenced by Zionist Jews. So began the movement to form a Jewish state at the expense of the natives.

Pretty easy to look up the history, the chronology and the events leading up to where we are now. I encourage everyone to do so. Very few have.
 
domer76 said:
That so-called “hard line” goes in both directions. The Jews (prior to 1948) with the Zionist movement to remove and now the Israelis to keep the Palestinians removed from their own land, is certainly hard line.

And where do you propose this “state” should be? The desolated area we call Gaza? The one that looks like something out of a nuclear war movie? Or the West Bank, where the Israelis continue to illegally build settlements?

The current government of Israel is as hard line as it gets. Hamas light, if you wish. Carrying out atrocities on their enemy, albeit at a lesser level. But for decades. There is no solution until reasonable governments take control. I don’t see that happening anytime in near future.
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There are certainly many hardlines in Israel who do not want compromise, but we have seen many offers made for a Palestinian State despite them. So fuck them as they would not prevent a deal, if the Palestinians would accept it and a real chance at peace was the on table.

There is nothing unique or special about the land Israel got. It was not highly prised (no oil) land in the region.

I see nothing wrong with this proposed State for Palestine. What issues do you have with it?

fjlm86t2go1c1.gif
 
domer76 said:
I think most of us have come to the conclusion that the genocide and mass transfer of native lands and possessions in America and Canada were moral failures and tragedies of unimaginable proportions. This country is still seeing the effects of those events. So, we continue to use those as examples of “tough shit, that’s how the cookie crumbles”? Shame on us as humans, then.

The facts are that the Palestinians lived, worked, farmed, conducted trade and business in those lands. They were merely under the rule of the Ottomans, who chose the losing side in WWI. At that time, colonial Britain called the shots and their leaders were heavily influenced by Zionist Jews. So began the movement to form a Jewish state at the expense of the natives.

Pretty easy to look up the history, the chronology and the events leading up to where we are now. I encourage everyone to do so. Very few have.
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That is not really what i am asking. I am not asking if you accept it with regret and condemnation.

Do you think it should be undone? That the lands be given back to the indigenous in Canada and the US. The lands given back to Mexico by the US. And all the border changes in europe and africa undone???

YOu seem to be saying 'ya that sucks in those places and i will verbally condemn but we accept it', which is a different standard than i see you applying to Israel.
 
domer76 said:
Have you had people wipe your ass for you your entire life or has that been a more recent problem?
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Isn't that a Democrat thing? No and I don't have the problem.

Again, you're free to refuse to reveal the sources you read in your earlier post....if they existed.
 
QP! said:
There are certainly many hardlines in Israel who do not want compromise, but we have seen many offers made for a Palestinian State despite them. So fuck them as they would not prevent a deal, if the Palestinians would accept it and a real chance at peace was the on table.

There is nothing unique or special about the land Israel got. It was not highly prised (no oil) land in the region.

I see nothing wrong with this proposed State for Palestine. What issues do you have with it?

fjlm86t2go1c1.gif
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It’s not mine to decide what’s wrong with any land proposal. At this point, I really don’t see an equitable end game to this entire shit show. We can go on and on about what “should have” been done at any one given point in time. As I say time and again, “if”, “could have”, “should have”, “would have” have never occurred in the entire history of mankind. Only the present reality. And that present reality is a human tragedy with no winners.
 
Doc Dutch said:
Isn't that a Democrat thing? No and I don't have the problem.

Again, you're free to refuse to reveal the sources you read in your earlier post....if they existed.
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When I have an interest in a certain subject, I take it upon myself to educate myself about it until that curiosity is satisfied. I don’t rely on anyone else to wipe my nose or ass to do that work for me.

From grade school on, when I needed to research a project, I went to the library and searched through the index cards to find the pertinent material on the subject.

It’s obvious you have neither the intellectual curiosity to do the former nor the ability or experience to do the latter.

Lazy. Intellectually and physically.
 
BartenderElite said:
Link for "many"?

And my question stated "all," which you said yes to.
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So you think there are ZERO Hamas Gold Star families in Gaza because I didn't post a link?

All is correct. Now go kill and capture some more Jew babies, Nazi.
 
Bigdog said:
So you think there are ZERO Hamas Gold Star families in Gaza because I didn't post a link?

All is correct. Now go kill and capture some more Jew babies, Nazi.
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This post is troublesome on so many levels. First, I just asked you to back up your claim of "many" - which apparently you simply cannot do. Ergo, you were just saying stuff. Obviously no truth to your claim.

Then, the contention that I think there are ZERO Gold Star families there - which I never said, or even implied, at least to anyone who understands the language.

Last, of course, the contention that anyone who supports innocents in Gaza is a Nazi who hates Jews, which is obviously ludicrous, wrong-headed and desperate.

All that, in just one short post. Nice work.
 
domer76 said:
Before WWI was over, the Brits promised the Palestinians there own homeland. That never occurred. There were millions of Palestinians living there with few Jews.
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There never was a Palestinian homeland dimwitted wonder dunce. The Arabs living in the region didn't want a two-state solution dimwitted wonder dunce. There are still millions of Arabs living in Israel doing quite well in fact dimwitted wonder dunce. The ones who aren't doing well are the ones who believed their Arab leaders, lost everything and now wallow in poverty in the shitholes their terrorist leaders force them in.

domer76 said:
Then, in the late 1940s, when the State of Israel was established, they allowed the Israelis to confiscate (steal) lands and property from the resident Palestinians. The 1948 conflict made them refugees from there own land..
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That is nothing more than a massive pile of lie filled bovine bile dimwitted wonder dunce.

In May 1948, Israel was officially declared an independent state. Following the announcement of an independent Israel, five Arab nations—Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon—immediately invaded the region in what became known as the 1948 Arab-Israeli War.

Arabs in the newly formed state were told to abandon their lands and join the fight and they would get all their land and then some back. The West Bank reverted to Jordan and the Gaza strip to Egypt as part of an armistice in 1949. Fascinating how the Arab terrorists never demand the land back from Jordan or Egypt. Funny how that works when your ideology is based on lies, terrorism and murder.
 
domer76 said:
Prior to the Balfour agreement, there was the McMahon Hussein agreement. That was violated with Balfour. But, Balfour did agree to protect the Palestinian’s property and civil rights. That was violated again, and especially in 1948. That’s when the Palestinians revolted, lost and became refugees in their own homeland.
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Source to your laughably ignorant bullshit halfwit. God you're stupid. :laugh:


Dumb
Obsessed
Mendacious
Egotistical
Rude
76 IQ
 
PostmodernProphet said:
if we need to change the borders of Israel formed by the UN after WW2 do we also need to reform the borders of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Turkey?......
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Domer and the other terrorist loving halfwits are too ignorant to comprehend what was once the Palestinian Territories. ;)
 
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