Ancient ALIEN Creationism - science or new age RELIGION?

Of course, there is no known mechanism where a literal memory can be transmitted thru sperm. That's not what the author proposes.

Sperm is just what they studied. It could happen through eggs but it would be based on things that happened to your grandmother. There are believed to be other epigenetic effects passed in utero.

Again, it is not fully understood but they have some ideas about it. None of them have anything to with do the bs you are talking about.

Without looking up the studies or digging deeper, my hypothesis would be that cells from the hippocampus portion of our brains, where memories are stored through a process of nuerogenesis, are passed on genetically to our offspring. If I had time to look all this up I would, but that's where I would start.
 
SO the poll found that belief had gone from 77% in 2012 to 50% in 2013 and you think this proves millennials believe in ancient aliens? Why would this decrease in belief in aliens show that? The wide variation makes me suspect methodological problems but your conclusions seem to be disproven if anything by this.

They found that 77 percent of Americans think that there are signs that aliens have visited Earth in 2012.

Belief in UFO's and Alien visitation is NOT uncommon. And the young have been exposed to much of that atheist theology and are more likely to believe.
 
Then you can explain how a fear that is held in the mind of an individual can make it's way into the DNA of that animals reproductive cells? Feel free to use anyone else's explanation, as I can tell you that there is none. All we know is that it happens.

Intelligence comes not from understanding, but the desire to understand what is not yet understood.

You on the other hand know everything but can not relay any of that info at all.

The author of the paper suggests that it is likely transmitted through epigenetic mechanisms.

"Depending on the environment an organism finds itself in, that gene might be turned on or off," study researcher Brian Dias of Emory University School of Medicine in Atlanta, told LiveScience. "It behooves ancestors to inform their offspring that a particular environment was a negative environment for them," Dias said.


I skipped over a "no." There is no known mechanism for passing memories to offspring and the author did not suggest it literally happened through a remembered experience.

The offspring developed receptors for the scent. That means it had an affect on the genes. There may have been some other genetic effects which programmed a fear response to those receptors being activated.
 
Belief in UFO's and Alien visitation is NOT uncommon. And the young have been exposed to much of that atheist theology and are more likely to believe.


It has nothing to do with any atheist "theology," idiot.

You still have not offered anything to establish that the belief in ancient aliens is popular among millennials.

You are a joke.
 
Atheism is in itself a religion, the fact is not changed that reality is not altered by what people believe or do not believe. Case in point the climate of earth has been warming dramatically for 20,000 years, no matter what any human says or believes.

You need to quit assuming things you don't understand. It's not a belief in itself other than there is no evidence to support a claim that a god exists. That is the complete opposite of 'religion'. Religion is based off faith, which is merely a belief without evidence. What climate has to do with it, well I suppose you have faith that anthropogenic climate change does not exist, whereas the evidence states quite the opposite. Would I change my views if evidence arose to dispute that? Sure would, unless I was faithful.
 
Without looking up the studies or digging deeper, my hypothesis would be that cells from the hippocampus portion of our brains, where memories are stored through a process of nuerogenesis, are passed on genetically to our offspring. If I had time to look all this up I would, but that's where I would start.


No! Dave, the paper does not suggest any literal passage of a memory. This dumbass troll may have read some science journalists bad attempt to explain it but the study does not claim that the mice have a literal memory of the experience of their ancestor.
 
It has nothing to do with any atheist "theology," idiot.

You still have not offered anything to establish that the belief in ancient aliens is popular among millennials.

You are a joke.

National Geographic polls says 77% of Americans believe. I'm not going to bother finding out if it breaks the poll down by age. Common sense tells you the young are more liikely to believe.
 
People can come up with a lot of crazy ideas to explain things they really have no evidence to help guide them. But this wouldn't be considered atheist. This sounds more like it would be a separate religion if they really believe in that.

Or, people that have already been convinced in the alien intervention theory can weave and explain just about anything in their Bible to fit with alien intervention, at least to
their own satisfaction.....
alien intervention certainly don't prevent them from believing in some deity...the human mind can invent out of thin air any explanation that fits their chosen faith....
Being an agnostic myself, with a fair education in Christian religion, I know that the Christian religion does not in any way prevent a Christian from believing in evolution
at the same time.....add alien intervention into the mix, and just about any Biblical miracle can become as factual to them as day and night....from the virgin birth to the infamous
Noah's Ark story to the parting of the red sea.....faith don't require scientific proof at all....nor will the lack of it undermine their beliefs....

Our earliest ancestors could not possibly try to explain strange phenomena like earthquakes, meteors, eclipses, lightening, etc, in any other way with the limited knowledge they
had except in mystical and spiritual terms....after all, their personal world was tiny......they had to 'invent' causes for the effects they saw around them....

We may see ourselves as 'advanced' to a degree when in reality we must also be aware how very much we don't know at the same time....
 
The author of the paper suggests that it is likely transmitted through epigenetic mechanisms.




I skipped over a "no." There is no known mechanism for passing memories to offspring and the author did not suggest it literally happened through a remembered experience.

The offspring developed receptors for the scent. That means it had an affect on the genes. There may have been some other genetic effects which programmed a fear response to those receptors being activated.

Dude there is no meaning to the term epigenic mechanism, other than to describe an event that happens which is not in dispute. The term epigenic mechanism DOES not convey any information on how the event occurs, as no human has any idea. There is an entire level to DNA information that is not yet understood, in fact the DNA helix may well be just the hardware to convey the info that is not yet visible to any of humanity.
 
No! Dave, the paper does not suggest any literal passage of a memory. This dumbass troll may have read some science journalists bad attempt to explain it but the study does not claim that the mice have a literal memory of the experience of their ancestor.

Like I said, didn't read what study he was looking up or anything so I didn't necessarily believe it. But we are constantly regenerating neurons in our hippo-campus, I could see a possibility of genetically passing on learned traits. But a memory itself? Nah.
 
Like I said, didn't read what study he was looking up or anything so I didn't necessarily believe it. But we are constantly regenerating neurons in our hippo-campus, I could see a possibility of genetically passing on learned traits. But a memory itself? Nah.

Then how do the mice know that they should be afraid of cherry blossoms that they have never seen or smelled? This is the problem, and the answer is part of what we are
 
The belief that Aliens created mankind through genetic manipulation has become very popular in the atheist religion. Many millenials are in awe that they have discovered this new 'truth". (though it's a 50 year old idea).

So why did the ancient aliens use 1970's space technology? The proof from Daniken and Giorgio Tsuckadickolous involves fire emitting rockets, bulky space suits, and landing strips for space shuttles or winged space ships. As well as giant pyramids to navigate, because apparently the aliens could find our planet out of billions, but yet were incapable of local navigation without giant stone monuments.

Many are so invested in this belief that it has taken on a religious quality for them as a creation story.

Thoughts?
To put it simply if the hypothesis doesn't make testable predictions based on empirical evidence and natural causation it simply isn't science.
 
National Geographic polls says 77% of Americans believe. I'm not going to bother finding out if it breaks the poll down by age. Common sense tells you the young are more liikely to believe.


So a poll that is not about belief in ancient alien "theory" is your proof that teens believe in ancient alien theory? There no sense whatsoever in that.
 
Dude there is no meaning to the term epigenic mechanism, other than to describe an event that happens which is not in dispute. The term epigenic mechanism DOES not convey any information on how the event occurs, as no human has any idea. There is an entire level to DNA information that is not yet understood, in fact the DNA helix may well be just the hardware to convey the info that is not yet visible to any of humanity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics#Mechanisms


Several types of epigenetic inheritance systems may play a role in what has become known as cell memory,[41] note however that not all of these are universally accepted to be examples of epigenetics.


Covalent modifications[edit]
Covalent modifications of either DNA (e.g. cytosine methylation and hydroxymethylation) or of histone proteins (e.g. lysine acetylation, lysine and arginine methylation, serine and threonine phosphorylation, and lysine ubiquitination and sumoylation) play central roles in many types of epigenetic inheritance. Therefore, the word "epigenetics" is sometimes used as a synonym for these processes. However, this can be misleading. Chromatin remodeling is not always inherited, and not all epigenetic inheritance involves chromatin remodeling.[42]




DNA associates with histone proteins to form chromatin.
Because the phenotype of a cell or individual is affected by which of its genes are transcribed, heritable transcription states can give rise to epigenetic effects. There are several layers of regulation of gene expression. One way that genes are regulated is through the remodeling of chromatin. Chromatin is the complex of DNA and the histone proteins with which it associates. If the way that DNA is wrapped around the histones changes, gene expression can change as well. Chromatin remodeling is accomplished through two main mechanisms:


The first way is post translational modification of the amino acids that make up histone proteins. Histone proteins are made up of long chains of amino acids. If the amino acids that are in the chain are changed, the shape of the histone might be modified. DNA is not completely unwound during replication. It is possible, then, that the modified histones may be carried into each new copy of the DNA. Once there, these histones may act as templates, initiating the surrounding new histones to be shaped in the new manner. By altering the shape of the histones around them, these modified histones would ensure that a lineage-specific transcription program is maintained after cell division.
The second way is the addition of methyl groups to the DNA, mostly at CpG sites, to convert cytosine to 5-methylcytosine. 5-Methylcytosine performs much like a regular cytosine, pairing with a guanine in double-stranded DNA. However, some areas of the genome are methylated more heavily than others, and highly methylated areas tend to be less transcriptionally active, through a mechanism not fully understood. Methylation of cytosines can also persist from the germ line of one of the parents into the zygote, marking the chromosome as being inherited from one parent or the other (genetic imprinting).
Mechanisms of heritability of histone state are not well understood; however, much is known about the mechanism of heritability of DNA methylation state during cell division and differentiation. Heritability of methylation state depends on certain enzymes (such as DNMT1) that have a higher affinity for 5-methylcytosine than for cytosine. If this enzyme reaches a "hemimethylated" portion of DNA (where 5-methylcytosine is in only one of the two DNA strands) the enzyme will methylate the other half.[43]


Although histone modifications occur throughout the entire sequence, the unstructured N-termini of histones (called histone tails) are particularly highly modified. These modifications include acetylation, methylation, ubiquitylation, phosphorylation, sumoylation, ribosylation and citrullination. Acetylation is the most highly studied of these modifications. For example, acetylation of the K14 and K9 lysines of the tail of histone H3 by histone acetyltransferase enzymes (HATs) is generally related to transcriptional competence.[citation needed]


One mode of thinking is that this tendency of acetylation to be associated with "active" transcription is biophysical in nature. Because it normally has a positively charged nitrogen at its end, lysine can bind the negatively charged phosphates of the DNA backbone. The acetylation event converts the positively charged amine group on the side chain into a neutral amide linkage. This removes the positive charge, thus loosening the DNA from the histone. When this occurs, complexes like SWI/SNF and other transcriptional factors can bind to the DNA and allow transcription to occur. This is the "cis" model of epigenetic function. In other words, changes to the histone tails have a direct effect on the DNA itself.[citation needed]


Another model of epigenetic function is the "trans" model. In this model, changes to the histone tails act indirectly on the DNA. For example, lysine acetylation may create a binding site for chromatin-modifying enzymes (or transcription machinery as well). This chromatin remodeler can then cause changes to the state of the chromatin. Indeed, a bromodomain — a protein domain that specifically binds acetyl-lysine — is found in many enzymes that help activate transcription, including the SWI/SNF complex. It may be that acetylation acts in this and the previous way to aid in transcriptional activation.


The idea that modifications act as docking modules for related factors is borne out by histone methylation as well. Methylation of lysine 9 of histone H3 has long been associated with constitutively transcriptionally silent chromatin (constitutive heterochromatin). It has been determined that a chromodomain (a domain that specifically binds methyl-lysine) in the transcriptionally repressive protein HP1 recruits HP1 to K9 methylated regions. One example that seems to refute this biophysical model for methylation is that tri-methylation of histone H3 at lysine 4 is strongly associated with (and required for full) transcriptional activation. Tri-methylation in this case would introduce a fixed positive charge on the tail.


It has been shown that the histone lysine methyltransferase (KMT) is responsible for this methylation activity in the pattern of histones H3 & H4. This enzyme utilizes a catalytically active site called the SET domain (Suppressor of variegation, Enhancer of zeste, Trithorax). The SET domain is a 130-amino acid sequence involved in modulating gene activities. This domain has been demonstrated to bind to the histone tail and causes the methylation of the histone.[44]


Differing histone modifications are likely to function in differing ways; acetylation at one position is likely to function differently from acetylation at another position. Also, multiple modifications may occur at the same time, and these modifications may work together to change the behavior of the nucleosome. The idea that multiple dynamic modifications regulate gene transcription in a systematic and reproducible way is called the histone code, although the idea that histone state can be read linearly as a digital information carrier has been largely debunked. One of the best-understood systems that orchestrates chromatin-based silencing is the SIR protein based silencing of the yeast hidden mating type loci HML and HMR.


DNA methylation frequently occurs in repeated sequences, and helps to suppress the expression and mobility of 'transposable elements':[45] Because 5-methylcytosine can be spontaneously deaminated (replacing nitrogen by oxygen) to thymidine, CpG sites are frequently mutated and become rare in the genome, except at CpG islands where they remain unmethylated. Epigenetic changes of this type thus have the potential to direct increased frequencies of permanent genetic mutation. DNA methylation patterns are known to be established and modified in response to environmental factors by a complex interplay of at least three independent DNA methyltransferases, DNMT1, DNMT3A, and DNMT3B, the loss of any of which is lethal in mice.[46] DNMT1 is the most abundant methyltransferase in somatic cells,[47] localizes to replication foci,[48] has a 10–40-fold preference for hemimethylated DNA and interacts with the proliferating cell nuclear antigen (PCNA).[49]


By preferentially modifying hemimethylated DNA, DNMT1 transfers patterns of methylation to a newly synthesized strand after DNA replication, and therefore is often referred to as the ‘maintenance' methyltransferase.[50] DNMT1 is essential for proper embryonic development, imprinting and X-inactivation.[46][51] To emphasize the difference of this molecular mechanism of inheritance from the canonical Watson-Crick base-pairing mechanism of transmission of genetic information, the term 'Epigenetic templating' was introduced.[52] Furthermore, in addition to the maintenance and transmission of methylated DNA states, the same principle could work in the maintenance and transmission of histone modifications and even cytoplasmic (structural) heritable states.[53]


Histones H3 and H4 can also be manipulated through demethylation using histone lysine demethylase (KDM). This recently identified enzyme has a catalytically active site called the Jumonji domain (JmjC). The demethylation occurs when JmjC utilizes multiple cofactors to hydroxylate the methyl group, thereby removing it. JmjC is capable of demethylating mono-, di-, and tri-methylated substrates.[54]


Chromosomal regions can adopt stable and heritable alternative states resulting in bistable gene expression without changes to the DNA sequence. Epigenetic control is often associated with alternative covalent modifications of histones.[55] The stability and heritability of states of larger chromosomal regions are suggested to involve positive feedback where modified nucleosomes recruit enzymes that similarly modify nearby nucleosomes.[56] A simplified stochastic model for this type of epigenetics is found here.[57][58]


It has been suggested that chromatin-based transcriptional regulation could be mediated by the effect of small RNAs. Small interfering RNAs can modulate transcriptional gene expression via epigenetic modulation of targeted promoters.[59]


RNA transcripts[edit]
Sometimes a gene, after being turned on, transcribes a product that (directly or indirectly) maintains the activity of that gene. For example, Hnf4 and MyoD enhance the transcription of many liver- and muscle-specific genes, respectively, including their own, through the transcription factor activity of the proteins they encode. RNA signalling includes differential recruitment of a hierarchy of generic chromatin modifying complexes and DNA methyltransferases to specific loci by RNAs during differentiation and development.[60] Other epigenetic changes are mediated by the production of different splice forms of RNA, or by formation of double-stranded RNA (RNAi). Descendants of the cell in which the gene was turned on will inherit this activity, even if the original stimulus for gene-activation is no longer present. These genes are often turned on or off by signal transduction, although in some systems where syncytia or gap junctions are important, RNA may spread directly to other cells or nuclei by diffusion. A large amount of RNA and protein is contributed to the zygote by the mother during oogenesis or via nurse cells, resulting in maternal effect phenotypes. A smaller quantity of sperm RNA is transmitted from the father, but there is recent evidence that this epigenetic information can lead to visible changes in several generations of offspring.[61]


MicroRNAs[edit]
MicroRNAs (miRNAs) are members of non-coding RNAs that range in size from 17 to 25 nucleotides. miRNAs regulate a large variety of biological functions in plants and animals.[62] So far, in 2013, about 2000 miRNAs have been discovered in humans and these can be found online in a miRNA database.[63] Each miRNA expressed in a cell may target about 100 to 200 messenger RNAs that it downregulates.[64] Most of the downregulation of mRNAs occurs by causing the decay of the targeted mRNA, while some downregulation occurs at the level of translation into protein.[65]


It appears that about 60% of human protein coding genes are regulated by miRNAs.[66] Many miRNAs are epigenetically regulated. About 50% of miRNA genes are associated with CpG islands,[62] that may be repressed by epigenetic methylation. Transcription from methylated CpG islands is strongly and heritably repressed.[67] Other miRNAs are epigenetically regulated by either histone modifications or by combined DNA methylation and histone modification.[62]


mRNA[edit]
In 2011, it was demonstrated that the methylation of mRNA plays a critical role in human energy homeostasis. The obesity-associated FTO gene is shown to be able to demethylate N6-methyladenosine in RNA.[68][69]


sRNAs[edit]
sRNAs are small (50–250 nucleotides), highly structured, non-coding RNA fragments found in bacteria. They control gene expression including virulence genes in pathogens and are viewed as new targets in the fight against drug-resistant bacteria.[70] They play an important role in many biological processes, binding to mRNA and protein targets in prokaryotes. Their phylogenetic analyses, for example through sRNA–mRNA target interactions or protein binding properties, are used to build comprehensive databases.[71] sRNA-gene maps based on their targets in microbial genomes are also constructed.[72]


Prions[edit]
For more details on this topic, see Fungal prions.
Prions are infectious forms of proteins. In general, proteins fold into discrete units that perform distinct cellular functions, but some proteins are also capable of forming an infectious conformational state known as a prion. Although often viewed in the context of infectious disease, prions are more loosely defined by their ability to catalytically convert other native state versions of the same protein to an infectious conformational state. It is in this latter sense that they can be viewed as epigenetic agents capable of inducing a phenotypic change without a modification of the genome.[73]


Fungal prions are considered by some to be epigenetic because the infectious phenotype caused by the prion can be inherited without modification of the genome. PSI+ and URE3, discovered in yeast in 1965 and 1971, are the two best studied of this type of prion.[74][75] Prions can have a phenotypic effect through the sequestration of protein in aggregates, thereby reducing that protein's activity. In PSI+ cells, the loss of the Sup35 protein (which is involved in termination of translation) causes ribosomes to have a higher rate of read-through of stop codons, an effect that results in suppression of nonsense mutations in other genes.[76] The ability of Sup35 to form prions may be a conserved trait. It could confer an adaptive advantage by giving cells the ability to switch into a PSI+ state and express dormant genetic features normally terminated by stop codon mutations.[77][78][79][80]


Structural inheritance[edit]
For more details on this topic, see Structural inheritance.
In ciliates such as Tetrahymena and Paramecium, genetically identical cells show heritable differences in the patterns of ciliary rows on their cell surface. Experimentally altered patterns can be transmitted to daughter cells. It seems existing structures act as templates for new structures. The mechanisms of such inheritance are unclear, but reasons exist to assume that multicellular organisms also use existing cell structures to assemble new ones.[81][82][83]


Nucleosome positioning[edit]
Eukaryotic genomes have numerous nucleosomes. Nucleosome position is not random, and determine the accessibility of DNA to regulatory proteins. This determines differences in gene expression and cell differentiation. It has been shown that at least some nucleosomes are retained in sperm cells (where most but not all histones are replaced by protamines). Thus nucleosome positioning is to some degree inheritable. Recent studies have uncovered connections between nucleosome positioning and other epigenetic factors, such as DNA methylation and hydroxymethylation [84]
 
Francis Crick postulated the theory of Directed Panspermia back in the 50's. Basically, as a means to get around the abiogenesis problem.

But it only kicked the can down the road lol.
You're confusing theory with hypothesis. Crick's hypothesis held no water as it was unable to provide empirical evidence to support it.
 
Then how do the mice know that they should be afraid of cherry blossoms that they have never seen or smelled? This is the problem, and the answer is part of what we are

I don't know. I don't know if that's even true, but I've laid out my hypothesis on how it may work. You would also need to remember that a mouse's brain experience nuerogenesis in more parts of it's brain than a human. So, if true that a mouse can pass on a 'memory', I would assume it's through the process of passing on genes that are affected by neurogenesis somehow? The discoveries in this area are pretty young, and I'm not exactly an expert on genetics..


Here is a good study that might get you started: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4306487/
and another: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4280160/
 
Then how do the mice know that they should be afraid of cherry blossoms that they have never seen or smelled? This is the problem, and the answer is part of what we are

There is no proof that they "know" it.

The mice have a greater ability to smell the blossom. The genes expressed in a way that created more receptors to the scent. Somehow the genes probably also programmed a fear response to the scent which is probably tied into the receptors. Or at least that is what is suggested.

It does seem to act like a memory but it's not literally a memory.
 
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