No stealing, just a link. You need to stop posting on meth. Thanks for proving my point.
Atheists more Intelligent
- Thread starter katzgar
- Start date
No stealing, just a link. You need to stop posting on meth. Thanks for proving my point.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
I have. They're the ones who aren't sucked into a stupid conversation. Same goes for the intelligent theists. All may post a response, but they don't stick around for the juvenile bullshit being spread by the likes of a "lawyer" and a college dropout.
I went to the original questionnaire used in the polling, and it does not ask about a literal hell.
Pew's poll question: "Do you think there is a hell, where people who have led bad lives and die without being sorry are eternally punished?"
It does not use the word literal, nor is the word "punishment" defined. It is a nebulous and poorly constrained question. Punishment does not have to mean eternal torture in Dante's fictional hellscape. And statisticians who design these polling questionnaires are unlikely to have a sophisticated understanding of theology.
The way the question is worded, Orthodox or Catholic Christian could answer in the affirmative if they hold a theologically correct belief that hell is not a literal place, but a state of being involving a self-imposed separation from communion with God
https://www.justplainpolitics.com/s...heists-more-Intelligent&p=3888505#post3888505
Edit to add:
To my knowlege, Dutch does not curse at me in this thread. You do not need me to protect you from Dutch. I have commented on the fact you cannot respond to me without rage and cursing
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Dude, now you're being insanely dishonest. Everyone in the fucking world knows what "hell's punishment" means.
Are you THAT devoted to "winning" this argument? Is being this incredibly dishonest and silly REALLY the method you want to use to die on this pathetic hill?
Even if one thinks that hell is this Christian Lite "separation from god" bullshit that they've used to blunt the impact of the prior position on it, that's ALSO magical, absurd thinking. When you die, you die. Your optic nerve, ears, skin nerves, heartbeat, brain, etc....all of it is dead. You don't "go somewhere else". Or if you do, no one on earth has ever provided even a scintilla of evidence of this.
This discussion is fucking absurd, and the fearmongering by Christians toward children for centuries is legendary. We scare kids into believing. That's child abuse. Pure and simple.
So I take it you're including yourself?
Stop pretending like you're not the chief admiral of "juvenile bullshit" as you insult EVERYONE who disagrees with you, with the VERY FIRST FUCKING REPLY you muster.
LOL, and again, I replied with reasoned facts and debate, and you come back with more juvenile snowballs.
674 posts? WTF are you talking about again?
You're a pathetic little bitch.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
Sometimes you'd be correct, I'd do that, but if you look closely it's mostly when it's the same argument over and over and over again like you and jackson shitting on anyone who isn't an atheist. If you opened your fucking eyes, counselor, you'd see where I've defended the rights of everyone regardless of their non-secular beliefs. I fully support keeping anything not provable in a court of law out of our laws.
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
a harsh condemnation of Jerome.......
The poll question does not say what you claimed it said.
It did not actually ask about a literal hell.
The word literal is found nowhere in the question.
I believe devout Orthodox Christians I know would consider self imposed and eternal separation from communion with God to be a severe punishment. And one that does not involve the hellfire and diabolical torture devices that the church you grew up in may have preached.
The fact that you and the statistician who wrote the poll question were unfamiliar with the complexity and variation of Christian theology probably led to a poll question which was entirely too simplistic to actually accurately capture the ranges of Christian conceptions of eschatology.
I'm ONLY shitting on you, because you behave like a disingenuous, juvenile asshole. And you behave that way toward ANYONE who disagrees with you, because you're a cunt.
I have no fucking clue what this word salad means, but what I do know is that you don't bother to read any posts you're replying to, and then you accuse everyone of that which you, yourself, are guilty.
You're basically trump.
Holy fucking shit, WHY WOULD IT NEED TO BE???
Oh, sorry, I'll find a poll that ONLY asks "devout orthodox christians cypress knows" the questions about hell.
The survey mentioned hell. "Do you believe in hell?"
The normative construction of what "hell" is, includes hellfire, a lake of fire, etc. This is not only consistent throughout most christian theology in the U.S., but it's also WELL known in our everyday culture.
You're denying gravity right now.
Do you realize how fucking stupid you sound yet?
That's your opinion.
You've yet to prove that it is the prevailing opinion. You've yet to disprove ANYTHING I've proven with my litany of links to academic papers and professional polls. I'll assume this is you conceding the debate.
Christian "hell" theology is, and should be, child abuse. Plain and simple. EVen if it's "Separation from God", since little children are trained by these orthodox whacko parents to believe Jesus and God are the holiest of holies who protect them from all evil. If you tell a child that they could be at risk of surrendering that protection when they're bad, THAT is child abuse.
Whichever one of you dumbfucks compared that to "learning music" is a complete fucking lunatic. I honestly can't remember if it was you, or dutch uncle. You're both sliding into histrionic trying to defend all things Christianity, so it doesn't really matter, does it?
jacksonsprat22
Verified User
You are a lawyer. You above anyone should know accuracy and precision in language is critical.
The fact that the poll question was not worded in the way you claimed leaves open the possibility that both Christians who think of hell as a literal place of hellfire and torture chambers, as well as Christians who think of hell as a spritual state of being could answer that poll question affirmatively.
Christian views on eschatology are complex and range substantially. This is something the person who wrote the poll question did not understand, imo
This is why I never tell anyone I'm a lawyer. You fucking dorks bring it up in ANY conversation, whether it's relevant or not.
This isn't a court of law. Stop being an idiot.
Then produce a poll that parses the words precisely how your little heart desires. Until then, I'm fucking exhausted, because I've been carrying the ENTIRE academic load of this conversation.
Yeah, it is your opinion. So produce a better poll. This isn't a discussion about eschatology, this is a discussion about popular opinion regarding christianity in the majority of christian households.
Pointy-headed theories about theology do not apply with regard to those questions. Not one bit.
Another problem with your poll, besides the nebulous and simplistic wording in the question:
As far as I can tell, this poll only interviews American Christians.
You have been tacitly assuming this reflects the views of worldwide Christianity.
American Christians are only about ten percent of world Christians, and in my view tend to be more Protestant, more fundamentalist, and more fire-and-brimstone.
Therefore, I think using this poll and it's flawed methodology in question wording, is not a logical approach to making claims about what world Christianity thinks and believes.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
If he's really a 42 year old lawyer and family man he needs to start acting like one instead of using it as an argumentum ab auctoritate.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
Well said and agreed. Some US denominations, such as Evangelicals and Southern Baptists as I previously posted, believe in Hellfire and Brimstone. Others do not. Jerome is as guilty of broadbrushing Christians as those who say "All lawyers are scumsucking bottom-feeders."
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
You used is as an argument. To Wit: argumentum ab auctoritate. "You opened the door, counselor." Quite whining.
Everyone but you seems to fully understand that this isn't a court of law and claiming to be a lawyer doesn't mean shit.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
Yeahhh, suuuure, you're a lawyer alright. I can tell by your highly educated and refined style of argument.
Not exactly Perry Mason, are ya', son?