Can there be a proof of God?

BidenPresident said:
Cypress said:
People usually conflate the word proof with the word evidence.

Outside of the axioms of Euclidean geometry, nothing in human experience is proven. And even Euclidean proofs are open to debate.

Science doesn't prove anything. Science is probabalistic, and based on empircal evidence. The Big Bang has not been proven, nor has the Mendelian synthesis on evolution. We can have extremely high confidence in scientific theories, but they are always provisional and subject to modification or change.


There is no empircal evidence of God, and no one of any importance has even tried to offer a deductive proof of God since Descartes in the 17th century.
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I did not do that. The topic of the thread is proof.
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There is no proof. /thread
 
BidenPresident said:
I did not do that. The topic of the thread is proof.
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That's my point. There is no such thing as proof, with the possible exception of Euclidean geometry.

We don't have proof of the Big Bang, but we have extremely strong evidence.

on the flipside, there is no convincing evidence for the God of the Old Testament.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
There is no proof. /thread
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So when McHeil's 1971 Navy steals & burns a US Constitution off a Navy Hospital wall to burn on a cross to claim they are "man is God" after murdering a Navy doctor after their stealing & burning an old glory wrapped in plastic presented by Eisenhower & inconspicuously transported inside an old testament is not proof in SCOTUS of "one nation under God with equal justice under law" just as Christianity's continuing theft of Eisenhower presented old glorys for arson as "Eisenhower was a war criminal" which also remains as "one nation under God" federal perjury by Christiananlity pedophilia suicidal super egos sociopsychopathilogical homicidal human farming business economics survival of the fittest fascists .
 
saltydancin said:
So when McHeil's 1971 Navy steals & burns a US Constitution off a Navy Hospital wall to burn on a cross to claim they are "man is God" after murdering a Navy doctor after their stealing & burning an old glory wrapped in plastic presented by Eisenhower & inconspicuously transported inside an old testament is not proof in SCOTUS of "one nation under God with equal justice under law" just as Christianity's continuing theft of Eisenhower presented old glorys for arson as "Eisenhower was a war criminal" which also remains as "one nation under God" federal perjury by Christiananlity pedophilia suicidal super egos sociopsychopathilogical homicidal human farming business economics survival of the fittest fascists .
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When you can translate that into American English, please let me know. TIA
 
AProudLefty said:
Have to define God first.
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Yes, the Republicans have found their new GOD and savior!

GOD- Good Ole Donnie!

images


They worship the ground he walks on!
 
Cypress said:
People usually conflate the word proof with the word evidence.

Outside of the axioms of Euclidean geometry, nothing in human experience is proven. And even Euclidean proofs are open to debate.

Science doesn't prove anything. Science is probabalistic, and based on empircal evidence. The Big Bang has not been proven, nor has the Mendelian synthesis on evolution. We can have extremely high confidence in scientific theories, but they are always provisional and subject to modification or change.


There is no empircal evidence of God, and no one of any importance has even tried to offer a deductive proof of God since Descartes in the 17th century.
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The best evidence for a purposefully constructed universe is the fine tuning of the universe, aka the fine structure constant (0.0073) and the other physical constants. They attain values that are very coincidentally balanced seemingly as if on the edge of a razor to make life, stars, and planets possible.

You could explain away fine tuning by novel speculations like eternal inflation, but there is no scientific basis or evidence of eternal inflation or a multiverse at this time.
 
BidenPresident said:
Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
Well, if you wake up in the morning, I figure that there's something going on that science can't explain. At that point, I ain't gonna look a gift horse in the mouth.
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I do not know what you mean.
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Think about it. There really is no scientific explanation as to the life force....bio-mechanical mapping non-withstanding. Hell, I actually watched a documentary on Nature where a botanist actually admitted that there is no real explanation as to why certain plant leaves are shaped a certain way, or are various colors.

So if the world populations since recorded history have believed that a deity (or deities) are a guiding controlling force of all things, and I get to wake up in the morning, I'm not going to dismiss the possibility out of hand.
 
AProudLefty said:
Have to define God first.
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When I use the word "GOD" or "gods" in a discussion of this sort, I mean "The entity (or entities) responsible for the creation of what we humans call 'the physical universe'...IF SUCH AN ENTITY OR ENTITIES ACTUALLY EXIST."

With that in mind, my position on the question of whether any gods exist is:


I do not know if any GOD (or gods) exist or not;
I see no reason to suspect that gods cannot exist…that the existence of a GOD or gods is impossible;
I see no reason to suspect that at least one GOD must exist...that the existence of at least one GOD is needed to explain existence;
I do not see enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base a meaningful guess in either direction on whether any gods exist or not...so I don't.

As to the question of the OP...of course there can be proof of a God. IF there is a GOD...and the GOD wanted us all to know it exists...it certainly could provide undeniable proof. After all, it managed to create a universe so vast that light takes billions of years to traverse it...and filled all that vastness with hundreds of billions of galaxies, each containing hundreds of billions of stars.

Also VERY OBVIOUSLY, IF THERE IS SUCH A GOD...the GOD has decided not to provide such evidence.
 
Frank Apisa said:
When I use the word "GOD" or "gods" in a discussion of this sort, I mean "The entity (or entities) responsible for the creation of what we humans call 'the physical universe'...IF SUCH AN ENTITY OR ENTITIES ACTUALLY EXIST."

With that in mind, my position on the question of whether any gods exist is:


I do not know if any GOD (or gods) exist or not;
I see no reason to suspect that gods cannot exist…that the existence of a GOD or gods is impossible;
I see no reason to suspect that at least one GOD must exist...that the existence of at least one GOD is needed to explain existence;
I do not see enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base a meaningful guess in either direction on whether any gods exist or not...so I don't.

As to the question of the OP...of course there can be proof of a God. IF there is a GOD...and the GOD wanted us all to know it exists...it certainly could provide undeniable proof. After all, it managed to create a universe so vast that light takes billions of years to traverse it...and filled all that vastness with hundreds of billions of galaxies, each containing hundreds of billions of stars.

Also VERY OBVIOUSLY, IF THERE IS SUCH A GOD...the GOD has decided not to provide such evidence.
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Thank you, very well articulated.

But the conclusion is there are no proofs of God.
 
Jarod said:
To me, the existence of a soul, something I feel inside me, is God.
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Yeah, I said something like that to Sister George, who was teaching Sunday School to the heathens who attended public school rather than parochial. She said GOD was everywhere! So I raised my hand...and when she called on me, I declared, "So if GOD is everywhere...he is in me. That means I am God."

Sister George NEVER called on me again...even when I raised my hand and waved it furiously.
 
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