Can there be a proof of God?

Cypress said:
Your objective is clear, but language, logic, and clarity matter.

That was the lesson of Socrates.

You are asking the wrong question, because asking for proof outside of mathematics is setting an impossibly high standard

No one can give you proof of God, of the Big Bang, or of the evolutionary origin of Homo Sapiens.

If you asked the question if there was any evidence for God, I could answer that yes there was, but it is not remotely close to definitive and it does not exclude alternative hypotheses.
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You are coming off like that nut IntoTheNight. You're just a dope.
 
Cypress said:
Your objective is clear, but language, logic, and clarity still matter.

That was the lesson of Socrates.

You are asking the wrong question, because asking for proof outside of mathematics is setting an impossibly high standard

No one can give you proof of God, of the Big Bang, or of the evolutionary origin of Homo Sapiens.

If you asked the question if there was any evidence for God, I could answer that yes there was, but it is not remotely close to definitive and it does not exclude alternative hypotheses.
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While I agree with you, you're dealing with a young woman, probably some college but dropped out due to cost, who is very angry at life....especially educated males. She's intelligent, but so angry it's difficult to see past the emotion.
 
Cypress said:
I am not sure a higher divinity could provide proof that would convince everybody. Walking on water, parting the Sea, turning water into wine could be interpreted by many people as magic tricks, optical illusion, or the technology of an advanced alien civilization. I am not convinced that all seven billion people on Earth would leap to the conclusion it was unequivocal and ironclad proof to be the Abrahamic God.
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So...you think that a god who could make the hundreds of billions of galaxies...each filled with hundreds of billions of suns...would not be able to give incontrovertible proof of its existence.

Okay. What can I say?

I think you are doing what theists do, Cypress...coming from a position of supposed certainty that no gods exist...except they come from a position of supposed certainty that at least one does exist.

Nothing wrong with either side making blind guesses...and pretending they have value.
 
Frank Apisa said:
So...you think that a god who could make the hundreds of billions of galaxies...each filled with hundreds of billions of suns...would not be able to give incontrovertible proof of its existence.

Okay. What can I say?

I think you are doing what theists do, Cypress...coming from a position of supposed certainty that no gods exist...except they come from a position of supposed certainty that at least one does exist.

Nothing wrong with either side making blind guesses...and pretending they have value.
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I'm agnostic. I am trying to understand the nature of proof implied by the OP. Because I am dubious of the very concept of proof outside of mathematics.

To begin with, it seems like God would have to have an ego to perform extraordinary acts to convince the world of his presence. What if God is more like the God of the Deists, universalists, or Spinoza's God?

What's an example of something God could do to prove to seven billion people he is the Abrahamistic God, rather than some advanced technology from alien civilizations? It would be nice to have a specific example of how that would work..

And how would God convince billions of Hindus, Buddhists, Jains Zoroastrians, and animists that any demonstration of miraculous power is actually the Christian God, and not any other spiritual manifestation associated with other cultural traditions?

I am just trying to understand how it would work.
 
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Cypress said:
I'm agnostic. I am trying to understand the nature of proof implied by the OP. Because I am dubious of the very concept of proof outside of mathematics.

To begin with, it seems like God would have to have an ego to perform extraordinary acts to convince the world of his presence. What if God is more like the God of the Deists, universalists, or Spinoza's God?

What's an example of something God could do to prove to seven billion people he is the Abrahamistic God, rather than some advanced technology from alien civilizations? It would be nice to have a specific example of how that would work..

And how would God convince billions of Hindus, Buddhists, Jains Zoroastrians, and animists that any demonstration of miraculous power is actually the Christian God, and not any other spiritual manifestation associated with other cultural traditions?

I am just trying to understand how it would work.
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If you're agnostic why do you give a damn if there is a God?
God has his own ways to prove he exists to TRUE believers!
 
Defender of Honor said:
If you're agnostic why do you give a damn if there is a God?
God has his own ways to prove he exists to TRUE believers!
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Agnostics only believe that the existence of God or the supernatural is unprovable. It's the Atheists and the Theists who push a view that is unsupported by fact.
 
Defender of Honor said:
If you're agnostic why do you give a damn if there is a God?
God has his own ways to prove he exists to TRUE believers!
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I actually have an established record on this board supporting the premise that belief can be rational, even if it isn't supported by mathmatical models or data from particle accelerators.

I don't have access to the answers to any ultimate truths or higher reality, but it doesn't prevent me from being interested in the search.
 
Cypress said:
I actually have an established record on this board supporting the premise that belief can be rational, even if it isn't supported by mathmatical models or data from particle accelerators.

I don't have access to the answers to any ultimate truths or higher reality, but it doesn't prevent me from being interested in the search.
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You sure are absolutely sure about every you say being the truth. What modesty!
 
BidenPresident said:
You sure are absolutely sure about every you say being the truth. What modesty!
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Incorrect, that's just your anger and resentment revealing itself.

I keep my mouth shut on subjects I lack knowledge in. You can search until the cows come home, but you will be hard pressed to find any posts from me on threads concerning the stock market, the Federal Reserve, major league baseball, etc
 
Cypress said:
Incorrect, that's just your anger and resentment revealing itself.

I keep my mouth shut on subjects I lack knowledge in. You can search until the cows come home, but you will be hard pressed to find any posts from me on threads concerning the stock market, the Federal Reserve, major league baseball, etc
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you are too immature to bother with
 
Cypress said:
I'm agnostic. I am trying to understand the nature of proof implied by the OP. Because I am dubious of the very concept of proof outside of mathematics.

To begin with, it seems like God would have to have an ego to perform extraordinary acts to convince the world of his presence. What if God is more like the God of the Deists, universalists, or Spinoza's God?

What's an example of something God could do to prove to seven billion people he is the Abrahamistic God, rather than some advanced technology from alien civilizations? It would be nice to have a specific example of how that would work..

And how would God convince billions of Hindus, Buddhists, Jains Zoroastrians, and animists that any demonstration of miraculous power is actually the Christian God, and not any other spiritual manifestation associated with other cultural traditions?

I am just trying to understand how it would work.
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My personal position on the question of gods is:

I do not know if any GOD (or gods) exist or not;
I see no reason to suspect that gods cannot exist…that the existence of a GOD or gods is impossible;
I see no reason to suspect that at least one GOD must exist...that the existence of at least one GOD is needed to explain existence;
I do not see enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base a meaningful guess in either direction on whether any gods exist or not...so I don't.

(When I use the word "GOD or gods" here, I mean "The entity (or entities) responsible for the creation of what we humans call 'the physical universe'...IF SUCH AN ENTITY OR ENTITIES ACTUALLY EXIST.)

Obviously an agnostic position. So we are both coming from an agnostic position.

I could care less about whether you suppose there are no proof outside mathematics; whether or not any god that might exist has an "ego" or not; whether it is the Abrahamic god or not; or any of the other concerns you are raising.

The question is, "Can there be a proof of God?"...and I am saying YES THERE CAN BE IF THERE IS A GOD. THE GOD CAN REVEAL ITSELF IN AN UNAMBIGUOUS WAY IF IT CHOOSES TO DO SO.

Jesus H. Christ, Cypress...what in hell is your problem with that?
 
Defender of Honor said:
If you're agnostic why do you give a damn if there is a God?
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What makes you suppose an agnostic position makes one "not give a damn if there are gods?"


God has his own ways to prove he exists to TRUE believers!
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IF there is a GOD...it could make itself known. These "TRUE believers" want to pretend that their blind guesses are a god making itself known.

Sounds a lot like bullshit to me.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Translation: I can't explain myself.

No worries. It's good they allow you computer time so you can interact with the real world outside of your "home".
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While going Dutch with "they", those under color of law Uncle Sam whom seems to be the national religion of Christiananality pedophilia's "man is God" in centuries of suicidal cognitive dissonance super egos organized proof of themselves; just as Russia's rootin' tootin' Putin expunging Ukraine for fabricated Nazi misnomers while bungling GI Joe Biden maintains the holy trinity of "serve the Pope or die" baptize thine eyes by urinations followed with an immaculate drug conception preceding murder aforethought malfeasance that maybe a computer can unravel since it's Klues Klucks duh Klans.
 
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